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An Issue Of Transparency.

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Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-09-13 19:57:25 UTC
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-09-13 19:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tron 3K
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
I unlike the rest play the game to have fun. if it changes or I see changes that might hurt the game then I can see the outcry.


Agreed, the last thing I think about when I'm logged into this game is what the dev's have done, doing or will do. Unless its something that actually keeps me from enjoying the game.

Its one thing to think about them its another to not grasp or comprehend whats going on.
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#63 - 2013-09-13 20:01:31 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?


Nope, but I was there to watch BoB's petitions fall on deaf ears at CCP. For them to say now that these have been the rules is complete bull unless CCP was directly favoring what is presently the largest powerhouse alliance in EVE. I do not want to believe that but if that's the statement that really needs to be made, I'll go break out old logs and help make it.

The alternative is that things have changed or simply still need to.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2013-09-13 20:02:39 UTC
Quote:
You want to go tell one of the strongest alliances in the history of EVE that their ENTIRE downfall was actually illegal within the ToS at the time, voiding every statement made by CCP during that time, reigniting buried hate for CCP from a large playerbase of EVE, telling them that their hate is actually completely legit?

Don't worry, the GMs are already doing that for you.


If CCP endorsed it then, CCP would endorse it now... as they have clearly stated. Nothing has changed in their enforcement in these matters.

Please cite a case where the new wording of the TOS has had an outcome that is different than it would have been before. If things are as radically different as you claim, and considering the number of scams in game every day, you should have no problem giving us some factual examples.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-09-13 20:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tron 3K
Isis Dea wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?


Nope, but I was there to watch BoB's petitions fall on deaf ears at CCP. For them to say now that these have been the rules is complete bull unless CCP was directly favoring what is presently the largest powerhouse alliance in EVE. I do not want to believe that but if that's the statement that really needs to be made, I'll go break out old logs and help make it.

The alternative is that things have changed or simply still need to.

What have been the rules? CCP did nothing then they are doing nothing now because nothing has changed.. Are you seriously trolling me or not comprehending that nothing has changed? (or the small possibility I misunderstood what you are bitching about)
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#66 - 2013-09-13 20:05:59 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
I unlike the rest play the game to have fun. if it changes or I see changes that might hurt the game then I can see the outcry.


Agreed, the last thing I think about when I'm logged into this game is what the dev's have done, doing or will do. Unless its something that actually keeps me from enjoying the game.

Its one thing to think about them its another to not grasp or comprehend whats going on.


For both you. Here I am quoting the downfall of BoB, one of the strongest alliances in EVE at the time, yet wasn't the largest. They had some of the finest power-gamers in their timezone fleets and were some of the best organized I've ever seen.

They had loads of fun and more than half of the map.

Then all the things we're having a fuss about with the ToS happened to them. An entire alliance was burnt for it, then later held hostage with it, and CCP said it was all within the rules to do it.

Would that affect your desiring to play the game, especially if you were a part of that alliance?

Before you're so selfish to think people are just whining for no reason, carefully consider how much history is present here or being brought to show before you insult them further.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#67 - 2013-09-13 20:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
You want to go tell one of the strongest alliances in the history of EVE that their ENTIRE downfall was actually illegal within the ToS at the time, voiding every statement made by CCP during that time, reigniting buried hate for CCP from a large playerbase of EVE, telling them that their hate is actually completely legit?

Don't worry, the GMs are already doing that for you.


If CCP endorsed it then, CCP would endorse it now... as they have clearly stated. Nothing has changed in their enforcement in these matters.

Please cite a case where the new wording of the TOS has had an outcome that is different than it would have been before. If things are as radically different as you claim, and considering the number of scams in game every day, you should have no problem giving us some factual examples.


That's the thing, they're NOT endorsing it now. They're saying everything Goons did will get you banned present day. And present day, the people who did that to BoB are NOT banned, they're thriving as ever and now top of the foodchain.

Now do you see why so many folks are ablaze about it?

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#68 - 2013-09-13 20:07:59 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?


Nope, but I was there to watch BoB's petitions fall on deaf ears at CCP. For them to say now that these have been the rules is complete bull unless CCP was directly favoring what is presently the largest powerhouse alliance in EVE. I do not want to believe that but if that's the statement that really needs to be made, I'll go break out old logs and help make it.

The alternative is that things have changed or simply still need to.

What have been the rules? CCP did nothing then they are doing nothing now because nothing has changed.. Are you seriously trolling me and not comprehending that nothing has changed? (or the small possibility I misunderstood what you are bitching about)

You see, they are upset because CCP tightened up their wording in the policy. It gives them the ability to better exercise their discretion when it comes to extreme cases that are clearly intended to circumvent the old policy.

That makes people that make a habit of exploiting loop holes unhappy, because it's more difficult for them to wriggle out of it if they get caught. So they whip up a herd of the more simple minded and get them as fired up as possible to try and create enough public outcry to change things.

Of course, this never works, but it costs them nothing to try. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#69 - 2013-09-13 20:09:24 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
You want to go tell one of the strongest alliances in the history of EVE that their ENTIRE downfall was actually illegal within the ToS at the time, voiding every statement made by CCP during that time, reigniting buried hate for CCP from a large playerbase of EVE, telling them that their hate is actually completely legit?

Don't worry, the GMs are already doing that for you.


If CCP endorsed it then, CCP would endorse it now... as they have clearly stated. Nothing has changed in their enforcement in these matters.

Please cite a case where the new wording of the TOS has had an outcome that is different than it would have been before. If things are as radically different as you claim, and considering the number of scams in game every day, you should have no problem giving us some factual examples.


That's the thing, they're NOT endorsing it now. They're saying everything Goons did will get you banned present day. And present day, the people who did that to BoB are NOT banned, they're thriving as ever and now top of the foodchain.

Now do you see why so many folks are ablaze about it?

Actually, they haven't said anything of the sort... but carry on.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#70 - 2013-09-13 20:10:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?


Nope, but I was there to watch BoB's petitions fall on deaf ears at CCP. For them to say now that these have been the rules is complete bull unless CCP was directly favoring what is presently the largest powerhouse alliance in EVE. I do not want to believe that but if that's the statement that really needs to be made, I'll go break out old logs and help make it.

The alternative is that things have changed or simply still need to.

What have been the rules? CCP did nothing then they are doing nothing now because nothing has changed.. Are you seriously trolling me and not comprehending that nothing has changed? (or the small possibility I misunderstood what you are bitching about)

You see, they are upset because CCP tightened up their wording in the policy. It gives them the ability to better exercise their discretion when it comes to extreme cases that are clearly intended to circumvent the old policy.

That makes people that make a habit of exploiting loop holes unhappy, because it's more difficult for them to wriggle out of it if they get caught. So they whip up a herd of the more simple minded and get them as fired up as possible to try and create enough public outcry to change things.

Of course, this never works, but it costs them nothing to try. Smile


*sigh*

Scroll up a post. -.-

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-09-13 20:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tron 3K
Thats what I figured the different wording was for but as even the GM said they are still allowing everything now that has happened in the past. So even with the different words you can still scam to your hearts content..

*EDIT* just can't do it to rookies to the game..
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#72 - 2013-09-13 20:11:50 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
If nothing happened to what the Goons did then why are we discussing it? /facepalm Because and here I say it again.. "Nothing" has changed. The GM said that.. Not I.. I'm just copying what he wrote.

Were you apart of BoB and still butthurt over it?


Nope, but I was there to watch BoB's petitions fall on deaf ears at CCP. For them to say now that these have been the rules is complete bull unless CCP was directly favoring what is presently the largest powerhouse alliance in EVE. I do not want to believe that but if that's the statement that really needs to be made, I'll go break out old logs and help make it.

The alternative is that things have changed or simply still need to.

What have been the rules? CCP did nothing then they are doing nothing now because nothing has changed.. Are you seriously trolling me and not comprehending that nothing has changed? (or the small possibility I misunderstood what you are bitching about)

You see, they are upset because CCP tightened up their wording in the policy. It gives them the ability to better exercise their discretion when it comes to extreme cases that are clearly intended to circumvent the old policy.

That makes people that make a habit of exploiting loop holes unhappy, because it's more difficult for them to wriggle out of it if they get caught. So they whip up a herd of the more simple minded and get them as fired up as possible to try and create enough public outcry to change things.

Of course, this never works, but it costs them nothing to try. Smile


*sigh*

Scroll up a post. -.-


Already did, try to keep up. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#73 - 2013-09-13 20:13:49 UTC
Quote:
16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.


Please keep discussion on the recent hot topic of ToS modifications in the appropriate thread.

Thread locked.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#74 - 2013-09-13 20:16:19 UTC
Lets see, when was the last time we went through this same idiocy? Oh yes, the wording of their Cache Scraping policy. Same thing, they tightened up their wording to protect themselves better from programs that used it for harmful purposes and the spin artists had everyone convinced that they would now be banned for using EVEmon or many of the marketing tracking programs.Big smileBig smileBig smile

Amazing how none of that actually happened, although their policy remains the same as when they clarified it.

I really should check back on what they big controversial issue was the time before that...

... and the time before that..

... and the time before that...


Doesn't really matter, they all end the same way.

Nothing changed that adversely affected the end user.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#75 - 2013-09-13 20:20:34 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
...2. IN-GAME NAMES
...
b. In-game names may not:
Impersonate or parody any employee or representative of EVE Online, CCP, Customer Support personnel or volunteers.
Impersonate or parody an NPC type from the EVE game world (i.e. CONCORD or other official NPC corporation or organization members) for the purpose of misleading other players.
...
In-game names include, but are not limited to: Character names, corporation names, alliance names and any other player-nameable item or entity within the game world.

c. No player may use the character name of another player to falsely represent his or her identity. Player created corporation and alliance names also fall under this policy, as do names of any other in-game entities.



Granted, this particular version is also only 3 months old at this point, but you can find the exact changes made to the naming policy at the time, together with the reasoning, in the according announcement about this change ...

...8. You may not impersonate or present yourself to be a representative of CCP or an EVE Online volunteer. You may not impersonate or falsely present yourself to be a representative of another player, group of players, character or NPC entity...[/quote]

Yet Goons both of these mechanics to take over the strongest alliance in the game. I have logs of people who submitted petitions back during this time and were kicked away from CCP with statements that it was perfectly fine what Goons did.

CCP even made articles about it, with the usual 'welcome to eve' spew.

Now that I've spelled it out pretty elementary for you, now do you get it?

Would like if you stopped insulting us now. Thanks.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...