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Market Discussions

 
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New to trading

Author
Lady Godwynn
Lady Godwynn Corporation
#1 - 2011-11-12 17:39:50 UTC
Hello trader friends.

I just started trying out the market aspect of EVE and I was wondering if you could help me understand it a little bit.

I understand the basics of trading, buy low/sell high, keeping your orders updated and look for
items that have a difference between buy/sell good enough to work with.

What I would like is your direction and help with how you more experienced traders work.
Do you source your items only through buy orders, what other sources are there?

How do you maintain momentum on your orders without grinding the .01 game all night long?

Is it a must to place yourself in one of the trading hubs?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions for you guys in the future, looking forward to mails/posts from you.


Lady Godwynn
Dane El
Negative Density
#2 - 2011-11-12 17:56:26 UTC
Buy orders are definately my prime source of goods but as prices trend upwards you can often find sell orders in the quieter regions that are below the current Jita buy price. You can also try to work out bulk buys from manufacturers but I don't bother with that.

I maintain momentum by listing sell orders outside the major trade hubs. I still trade in the hubs but those orders are basically sitting waiting for an upswing. They get updated once, maybe twice a week. I rarely see huge volume from my scatter shot of orders buy they bring steady income. If you don't have a lot of isk to work with or you need returns quickly, don't do this.

Trade hubs certainly aren't a must but if you're after fast returns or lots of volume, they are the place to be.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2011-11-12 21:18:58 UTC
Lady Godwynn wrote:
Hello trader friends.

Do you source your items only through buy orders, what other sources are there?


I pick up goods any way I can including missioning, salvaging and mining. When I pvp I always return with a full cargohold of loot unless I get blown up.

Quote:
How do you maintain momentum on your orders without grinding the .01 game all night long?


To maximise return for click you want long duration orders not short ones you babysit. Suppose I sell a stack of guns. I'll list it at 1 isk or 0.01 isk under the cheapest and leave it for 3 months. If someone undercuts me it doesn't matter so long as at some point over the 3 months the price (briefly) spiked over my sell price. With the 3 month approach I've found that around 90% of my orders sell rather than return to hangar unsold. In fact most sell pretty soon but if they don't I'd rather get a few extra sales in exchange for no work than work a lot to shift everything. So if my guns sit there at 1000 while the price drops to 800 but then in Month 3 the price spikes back up to 1000 I sell my stack for just the one original piece of work.

If you want to get faster profits you can get them with more work, with 0.01 isking. But you pay the opportunity cost of spending an hour updating a long sheet of orders to get back in front. That's an hour you could have been doing something profitable. Plus it's pretty boring. I have close to 1000 order capacity now, too much to mess around with each one all the time.

Quote:
Is it a must to place yourself in one of the trading hubs?


Early on, I'd say yes. After trading for a couple of years i do some trading at Jita and some at a more expensive lower volume place which I'm trying to turn into a hub.

If you're in a corp you may be doing your corp a favour by stocking their locality. And they shouldn't mind you making a reasonable profit while you help them.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

Lady Godwynn
Lady Godwynn Corporation
#4 - 2011-11-13 00:04:41 UTC
Thank you for your informative replies Dane El and Callduron.

Am I reading this right, that the best turnover and prices are found in trade hubs and that products flow to them
from the countryside by traders, builders, transporters?

And secondly, that if I place my orders within the range of regular price fluctuations, that non-babysat(!) orders should still
see some movement? This is good to hear, I guess it will take time for me to see how the long term works since I just started,
but it looked pretty daunting thinking that my orders were basically dead the moment I was undercut / outbid!

Yes, I have problems getting inventory to sell, it takes a long time for me to get any waiting on buy orders to fill, even though I
try to spend a night keeping them on top.


Lady Godwynn


JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-13 10:07:56 UTC
It is mostly an intel game. There are both items and areas with heavy trading. They represent a lot of time invested in the bidding game. Not worth it for me but I have friends who play that game. When the buy/ sell differential is worth the TIME (time os your ultimate investment in the game) it is worth microing bids. Me I like to work on depth of intel. That is to say if you hold a lot of information about a limited line of products you can pick buys and sells that return on the investment. Ideally this should work around your normal course of play.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Kesshisan
#6 - 2011-11-14 09:49:44 UTC
Lady Godwynn wrote:
How do you maintain momentum on your orders without grinding the .01 game all night long?

Is it a must to place yourself in one of the trading hubs?


JitaJane is correct; it's an intel game.

The easiest way to avoid the .01 game is to move yourself away from a main trade hub. There are sub-trade hubs, but they're nothing like Jita, Dodixie, Rens, and Amarr.

For example, I lived in the Caldari Boarder Zone for a few months. The Caldari Boarder Zone is a popular hub for people going in and out of low sec. I setup shop and started selling PvP related ships and modules out there. One such gem was when I noticed that there were no Cap Recharger IIs for sale in the entire region (for a reasonable price.) I did some quick spreadsheet-fu, and figured out what it would cost me to manufacture them using local minerals. I then made a few hundred and sold them at only silghtly unreasonable prices. Every single one of them sold, and at quite a nice profit and I didn't have to adjust my order once. Heck, I could have simply imported the goods from Jita if I wanted to, but I attacked it from the manufacturing side of things.

I was able to make a profit there by knowing what the region was like, identifying gaps in the market, and then filling these gaps.

Lady Godwynn
Lady Godwynn Corporation
#7 - 2011-11-14 19:25:45 UTC
I guess it's off to the countryside for me, in search of misplaced and undervalued items!
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-14 21:37:45 UTC
There's also a lot of room for team play. When I started playin Eve I just ran lots of missions and discovered I had these piles of LP laying around. So by tracking tag prices and market rates I ended up working out LP/isk ratios for a lot of items. The buddy who got me started in the game had done much the same with mineral prices and manufacturing. We knew another guy who was a strict market player. So I'd figure out where to spend LP, he'd figure out what manu to que and our closer would max the returns. Every now and again one of us will take a long look at a market segment (a lot more interesting than running AE for the n+1 time) and then have multiple players move to exploit it once the research is done...

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Lady Godwynn
Lady Godwynn Corporation
#9 - 2011-11-14 22:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Godwynn
JitaJane wrote:
There's also a lot of room for team play. When I started playin Eve I just ran lots of missions and discovered I had these piles of LP laying around. So by tracking tag prices and market rates I ended up working out LP/isk ratios for a lot of items. The buddy who got me started in the game had done much the same with mineral prices and manufacturing. We knew another guy who was a strict market player. So I'd figure out where to spend LP, he'd figure out what manu to que and our closer would max the returns. Every now and again one of us will take a long look at a market segment (a lot more interesting than running AE for the n+1 time) and then have multiple players move to exploit it once the research is done...


I have no doubt that savvy traders working together can accomplish much bigger things by joining forces. I cannot
afford to make any market moves yet, my bank account isn't ready for that, so I'll have to take it slower.

Right now I'm trying to reach out to people I see filling my buy orders to create some contacts with manufacturers,
have had positive response so far from the 3 I've been able to find.

Thank you for your informative replies
Lady Godwynn

Edit: I can now fly an Iteron Mark II and can be seen cruising around at dangerous speeds buying ammo (and clothes)