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Crime & Punishment

 
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Ganking too easy?
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Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-09-12 20:46:34 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Playing intentionally stupid is rude.


Since it is impossible to get ganked in high sec if you are at the keyboard and paying attention then it's probably the people getting ganked that are intentionally stupid.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Dave Stark
#122 - 2013-09-12 20:59:01 UTC
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

it's also interesting how nobody has answered my question yet.


My very first statement to you was that the base assumption of your question is wrong, which basically constitutes an answer. There is no reason that the stupid shouldn't be punished. A question in return:

Why should gankers that just aim to cause maximum damage (without bothering with the logistics of retreiving loot to acutally make direct profit from ganking, which I'm fine with) have the ability to do so at efficiency rates > 400% while personally risking neither significant valueables nor retribution to the chars that allow them to finance their ganking?


the first statement put to me had nothing to do with my question. therefore it wasn't an answer. that's like me answering "would you like a cup of tea" with the word "ants".

they should be able to do so because they're having to invest considerably more man power, and isk isn't the only factor in this equation that you seem to be casually ignoring.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#123 - 2013-09-12 21:06:44 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

it's also interesting how nobody has answered my question yet.


My very first statement to you was that the base assumption of your question is wrong, which basically constitutes an answer. There is no reason that the stupid shouldn't be punished. A question in return:

Why should gankers that just aim to cause maximum damage (without bothering with the logistics of retreiving loot to acutally make direct profit from ganking, which I'm fine with) have the ability to do so at efficiency rates > 400% while personally risking neither significant valueables nor retribution to the chars that allow them to finance their ganking?


the first statement put to me had nothing to do with my question. therefore it wasn't an answer. that's like me answering "would you like a cup of tea" with the word "ants".

Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

why shouldn't stupid people be punished for being stupid?


They should be.

The problem isn't that stupid people are being punished for being stupid, but that the punishing party
a.) currently invests to little into the act of punishment, specifically looses to little if they try to punish the wrong person. This makes it frustrating to actively combat them and encourages avoidance, which works but isn't really exiting gamplay.
b.) is relatively free of reprecussions due to anonymity of mains etc., however due to the way alt accounts work in EvE, there's not much that can be done to combat this. It still should be kept in mind as a point in favor of the attackers when difficulty and cost of ganking are discussed.
c..) has the entire initiative in the issue, as active defensive measures are rarely able to stop a gank.


Again, highlighted.

Given that >50% of your posts directed at me either ignore statements I made or suggest I demand things I specifically excluded I'll refrain from further discussing this issue.
Dave Stark
#124 - 2013-09-12 21:08:51 UTC
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Again, highlighted.

Given that >50% of your posts directed at me either ignore statements I made or suggest I demand things I specifically excluded I'll refrain from further discussing this issue.


that wasn't the first statement put to me.

yes, please stop whining. i asked the OP to answer my question and you just started crying at me, which is generally why i was ignoring most of your suggestions. i was just waiting for an answer to my question from the person i asked instead of some random who thinks i care about their bleating.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#125 - 2013-09-12 21:15:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Again, highlighted.

Given that >50% of your posts directed at me either ignore statements I made or suggest I demand things I specifically excluded I'll refrain from further discussing this issue.


that wasn't the first statement put to me.

yes, please stop whining. i asked the OP to answer my question and you just started crying at me, which is generally why i was ignoring most of your suggestions. i was just waiting for an answer to my question from the person i asked instead of some random who thinks i care about their bleating.


And you wonder why no one feels any obligation to paint a picture so clear a 5yo could grasp it.
Dave Stark
#126 - 2013-09-12 21:22:41 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Again, highlighted.

Given that >50% of your posts directed at me either ignore statements I made or suggest I demand things I specifically excluded I'll refrain from further discussing this issue.


that wasn't the first statement put to me.

yes, please stop whining. i asked the OP to answer my question and you just started crying at me, which is generally why i was ignoring most of your suggestions. i was just waiting for an answer to my question from the person i asked instead of some random who thinks i care about their bleating.


And you wonder why no one feels any obligation to paint a picture so clear a 5yo could grasp it.


i know why; it's because you haven't got a sensible answer to the question because your initial proposal was poorly constructed an terrible.

however you could attempt to prove me wrong by answering the question i asked about two pages ago.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#127 - 2013-09-12 21:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Rhes wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Playing intentionally stupid is rude.


Since it is impossible to get ganked in high sec if you are at the keyboard and paying attention then it's probably the people getting ganked that are intentionally stupid.



Cool story bro.

There is a difference between being temporarily stupid (able to correct behavior, but having a temporary lapse) and being stupid all the time (unable to learn).

I believe EVE is a not a game for those with an inability to learn. They can't even figure out how to rig a ship for belt rats. The learning curve of Eve sorts them out soon enough regardless of Gankers. They cannot even earn enough isk to be worth stealing though they often are relieved of their ship's pathetic loots in duels for luls.

No one is above a temporary lapse, a temporary relaxation of better game play technique. No one. See the dude who just lost a 110 Bill Morcha to a AF in a FW med plex. If you play a pvp game your temporary lapse will eventually cause a loss. That is not the issue. The issue is that the current method for getting even actually protects the gankers assets better than the ganked.

This thread is about how ganking is too easy because gankers are better protected from an economic standpoint in Hi-sec than their victims are. CCP has created a class of player that uniquely can finance the more standard game play of mains through parasitism with no repercussion.
Dave Stark
#128 - 2013-09-12 21:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
CCP has created a class of player that uniquely can finance more standard game play with no repercussion.


you're wrong. your entire argument is built on something that is false, such a shame.

such a waste of eloquence, when you actually put your mind to it.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#129 - 2013-09-12 21:31:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
CCP has created a class of player that uniquely can finance more standard game play with no repercussion.


you're wrong. your entire argument is built on something that is false, such a shame.

such a waste of eloquence, when you actually put your mind to it.


Prove me wrong. Empty statements are Empty.
Dave Stark
#130 - 2013-09-12 21:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
CCP has created a class of player that uniquely can finance more standard game play with no repercussion.


you're wrong. your entire argument is built on something that is false, such a shame.

such a waste of eloquence, when you actually put your mind to it.


Prove me wrong. Empty statements are Empty.


what do you mean prove you wrong? open eve, log in, and suicide gank something. then you'll see why you're wrong. i don't have all night to sit here and explain how the game works to you; log in and take a look.

i mean, **** me, the whole retribution expansion was built around consequences. saying there are none is like saying retribution never happened.

I genuinely feel sorry for you. you're an eloquent guy who has no idea how things work. such a waste of potential, seriously.

edit: got my expansions mixed up.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2013-09-12 21:57:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

Suicide gank something for profit. then you'll see why you're wrong.


Felt the bolded part was necessary to add, since according to OP it's so easy.
Also technically should go to -10 to get the true experience of how easy it is.

Dave Stark wrote:

I genuinely feel sorry for you. you're an eloquent guy who has no idea how things work. such a waste of potential.


Agreed
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#132 - 2013-09-12 22:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Dave Stark wrote:


what do you mean prove you wrong? open eve, log in, and suicide gank something. then you'll see why you're wrong. i don't have all night to sit here and explain how the game works to you; log in and take a look.

i mean, **** me, the whole retribution expansion was built around consequences. saying there are none is like saying retribution never happened.

I genuinely feel sorry for you. you're an eloquent guy who has no idea how things work. such a waste of potential, seriously.

edit: got my expansions mixed up.


Um, so you're telling me that the line of wrecks lining the trade routes to Jita daily are done only for the luls? That ganker corps don't exist? Cause we tracked these particular perps and found their corps that do this exclusively. I guess that long list of dozens of missioners and industrial ships was all leet PvP. Granted some are "legal" wardecs etc.

You're telling me that admitted extortionists like Spine Ripper who posted in this thread don't finance their game play and activities through ganking? That they self-admittedly have no consequences and cannot be stopped?

That there is no profit at all in this and it is only done because it is so much fun?

Who do you think you are kidding?


L O L

The problem is not that they do it. The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else. That gap should be narrowed, imo.
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#133 - 2013-09-12 23:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimson Gauntlet
Quote:
Um, so you're telling me that the line of wrecks lining the trade routes to Jita daily are done only for the luls? That ganker corps don't exist? Cause we tracked these particular perps and found their corps that do this exclusively. I guess that long list of dozens of missioners and industrial ships was all leet PvP. Granted some are "legal" wardecs etc.


If only people wouldn't make it profitable to gank them, gankers wouldn't do it.

Really. Try hanging around the Jita pipeline for a while with a ship and cargo scanner. Hang around and watch the same Charon freighter floating there for 50+ minutes, with 5 billion isk in the cargo hold.

Wanting to see what they have in their cargo hold, quickly turns into wanting to have what they have in their cargo hold. So it's only natural. Dangle some meat in the lion cage long enough, and they'll take a bite. What's wrong with taking advantage of the stupidity of others anyway?

Quote:
You're telling me that admitted extortionists like Spine Ripper who posted in this thread don't finance their game play and activities through ganking? That they self-admittedly have no consequences and cannot be stopped?


I am also, like Spine Ripper, a part of the New Order of Highsec. I finance my gameplay by being reimbursed by James 315, who in turn gets this money mostly from donations of people who support our efforts. That, and donations to myself directly from various happy customers.

But you make a mistake when you say that there are no consequences. There are consequences, we simply take steps to minimize them. And we can be stopped, but not by people who aren't awake, or who have their heads too deep in the sand to notice us.

Quote:
The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else.


Observably and obviously false. Trading characters. How do hurt someone that never undocks? (yes, I know you can beat them in the market, but it's a lot harder than simply killing us would be)
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-09-13 03:29:15 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Um, so you're telling me that the line of wrecks lining the trade routes to Jita daily are done only for the luls?.


Yes. Of course you can get a lucky drop every once in a while but suicide ganking isn't motivated by profits.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Anne McDonald
Sandman are here
#135 - 2013-09-13 04:09:38 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Um, so you're telling me that the line of wrecks lining the trade routes to Jita daily are done only for the luls?.


Yes. Of course you can get a lucky drop every once in a while but suicide ganking isn't motivated by profits.



I disagree my daily ganks on haulers are 100% motivated on profit :)
Dave Stark
#136 - 2013-09-13 05:25:21 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
The problem is not that they do it. The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else. That gap should be narrowed, imo.


that is the problem, or you wouldn't be here crying about it.

once again you're coming out with things that are incorrect; stop it. learn how the game works then, and only then, make a thread about it.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#137 - 2013-09-13 05:28:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
The problem is not that they do it. The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else. That gap should be narrowed, imo.


that is the problem, or you wouldn't be here crying about it.

once again you're coming out with things that are incorrect; stop it. learn how the game works then, and only then, make a thread about it.


You're a little slow.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#138 - 2013-09-13 06:46:57 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
The problem is not that they do it. The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else. That gap should be narrowed, imo.


that is the problem, or you wouldn't be here crying about it.

once again you're coming out with things that are incorrect; stop it. learn how the game works then, and only then, make a thread about it.


You're a little slow.


Dave Stark likes to troll threads, he creates his own argument with the OP to attempt to discredit the OP and take attention away from the original point, just keep repeating the original point back to him as you are doing and he will run out of oxygen.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#139 - 2013-09-13 07:05:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
The problem is not that they do it. The problem is that *from a financial standpoint* they are more protected in HiSec than anyone else. That gap should be narrowed, imo.


that is the problem, or you wouldn't be here crying about it.

once again you're coming out with things that are incorrect; stop it. learn how the game works then, and only then, make a thread about it.


You're a little slow.


Dave Stark likes to troll threads, he creates his own argument with the OP to attempt to discredit the OP and take attention away from the original point, just keep repeating the original point back to him as you are doing and he will run out of oxygen.



Thanks for that.

Yea, I am no noob when it comes to the gaming forums (though I haven't posted here before). I recognize the Troll is strong in that one. If I wasn't serious about this topic I would handle him more directly. What trolls hate more than anything is getting trolled. Now *THAT* is a worthy harvest of tears. Cool
SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
#140 - 2013-09-13 11:40:24 UTC
Anyone who thinks it's too easy needs to try it.

...