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Eve still has it's up's and down's. But should it?
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Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-11-14 18:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Mercy
The imminent implementation of angled stargates and warp tunnel that works through planets reminded me of one last thing which affects immersion:

All ships fly with the same 'up/down' in each system - and even auto-orient when coming out of warp, after orbits and flying at oblique angles.

Get rid of 'up' and 'down' with regards to ship orientation. Let us stand off against our opponent at a jaunty angle

Possibly with a checkbox in the options or something. Allow us to manual spin our ship. Make this a gameplay feature with regards to enhanced/reduced agility at certain angles with orbiting?

Lairne Tekitsu wrote:
The question is, how would camera controls work if there were no up or down?


It could still work with regards to the actual orientation of your ship. I.E. The top/bottom of you ship are the up/down for your camera. Just no auto-orientation for your ship is all.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-14 18:35:41 UTC
Are stargates angled to point up and down now?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-11-14 18:37:59 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Are stargates angled to point up and down now?


On Sisi, yes. They point to the correct destination instead of all pointing 'South'.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-14 18:38:46 UTC
Dr Mercy wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Are stargates angled to point up and down now?


On Sisi, yes. They point to the correct destination instead of all pointing 'South'.



SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2011-11-14 18:41:55 UTC
Personally, I would love to have the concept of up and down completely obliterated in EVE.

It would convey the free falling of weightless space, alas it's considered too confusing for the lesser spatially aware players.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Lairne Tekitsu
DadTZ
#6 - 2011-11-14 18:45:27 UTC
The question is, how would camera controls work if there were no up or down?
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-14 18:46:31 UTC
Oh geez, now how will I be able to have my coffee mug in the cockpit?

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-11-14 18:48:32 UTC
Lairne Tekitsu wrote:
The question is, how would camera controls work if there were no up or down?


It could still work with regards to the actual orientation of your ship. I.E. The top/bottom of you ship are the up/down for your camera. Just no auto-orientation for your ship is all.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Valeo Galaem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-14 19:10:30 UTC
Unfortunately this could never happen without a complete rewrite of the game. The server does not keep track of orientation for ships, just position and motion, and assumes they are pointed in the direction of travel, and that "up" is up.

Standalone Windows build of ccpgames/dae-to-red

https://github.com/Nu11u5/dae-to-red/releases
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-14 19:19:40 UTC
Valeo Galaem wrote:
Unfortunately this could never happen without a complete rewrite of the game. The server does not keep track of orientation for ships, just position and motion, and assumes they are pointed in the direction of travel, and that "up" is up.

it wouldn't be a complete rewrite, but I do see how this could be an issue. but you can't say that it would be kick ass to have this implemented.
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-11-14 19:47:09 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
Valeo Galaem wrote:
Unfortunately this could never happen without a complete rewrite of the game. The server does not keep track of orientation for ships, just position and motion, and assumes they are pointed in the direction of travel, and that "up" is up.

it wouldn't be a complete rewrite, but I do see how this could be an issue. but you can't say that it would be kick ass to have this implemented.


FYI, you actually can say that it would be kick ass to have this implemented.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2011-11-14 19:47:16 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
it wouldn't be a complete rewrite
Adding the full triplet of yaw / pitch / roll on top of the current simple x / y / z velocity vector would indeed require a complete rewrite of… pretty much everything space-related.
stoicfaux
#13 - 2011-11-14 21:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
'Up' and 'down' in Eve makes sense because the ships do not use Newtonian physics (i.e. rocket engines, conservation of momentum) to move. If the "friction" of subspace causes ships to decelerate when their engines are off, then it makes sense that ships automatically roll towards a certain orientation. Kind of like how the moon always presents the same side towards the Earth, or how a floating log will always rotate back to having one particular side facing up even after you spin it.

Disclaimer: Lubricant was required, but not necessarily used, to formulate this rationalization.


edit: If anything, a ship's up/down should be relative to the system's star.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-11-14 22:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
These posts read as if i am the only one who's ship often stops
and faces random directions at random angles sometimes ...
... without showing any sign of wanting to go horizontal !

Excuse me ??
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2011-11-14 22:15:53 UTC
Dr Mercy wrote:
The imminent implementation of angled stargates and warp tunnel that works through planets reminded me of one last thing which affects immersion:

All ships fly with the same 'up/down' in each system - and even auto-orient when coming out of warp, after orbits and flying at oblique angles.

Get rid of 'up' and 'down' with regards to ship orientation. Let us stand off against our opponent at a jaunty angle

Possibly with a checkbox in the options or something. Allow us to manual spin our ship. Make this a gameplay feature with regards to enhanced/reduced agility at certain angles with orbiting?

Lairne Tekitsu wrote:
The question is, how would camera controls work if there were no up or down?


It could still work with regards to the actual orientation of your ship. I.E. The top/bottom of you ship are the up/down for your camera. Just no auto-orientation for your ship is all.


This is something i begged for years ago. Short answer is they've spend hours writing up RP reasons for why ships do this, and so it'll never change.

But i agree, it takes away from the immersion factor. I think Stations should be anchored towards the planet/moon they're orbiting also, not just up/down.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2011-11-14 22:17:43 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
'Up' and 'down' in Eve makes sense because the ships do not use Newtonian physics (i.e. rocket engines, conservation of momentum) to move. If the "friction" of subspace causes ships to decelerate when their engines are off, then it makes sense that ships automatically roll towards a certain orientation. Kind of like how the moon always presents the same side towards the Earth, or how a floating log will always rotate back to having one particular side facing up even after you spin it.

Disclaimer: Lubricant was required, but not necessarily used, to formulate this rationalization.


edit: If anything, a ship's up/down should be relative to the system's star.


Once a warp core is active, it's active for ever. Blow the ship up and the warp core dies.
As long as the warp core is online the ship is anchored to the fabric of the universe or subspace.
Exerting a force to move the ship will move the ship, but the warp core will decelerate the ship.

It's like an anchor.

Big smile

That's why view of it.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#17 - 2011-11-14 22:23:53 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
'Up' and 'down' in Eve makes sense because the ships do not use Newtonian physics (i.e. rocket engines, conservation of momentum) to move. If the "friction" of subspace causes ships to decelerate when their engines are off, then it makes sense that ships automatically roll towards a certain orientation. Kind of like how the moon always presents the same side towards the Earth, or how a floating log will always rotate back to having one particular side facing up even after you spin it.

Disclaimer: Lubricant was required, but not necessarily used, to formulate this rationalization.


edit: If anything, a ship's up/down should be relative to the system's star.


Once a warp core is active, it's active for ever. Blow the ship up and the warp core dies.
As long as the warp core is online the ship is anchored to the fabric of the universe or subspace.
Exerting a force to move the ship will move the ship, but the warp core will decelerate the ship.

It's like an anchor.

Big smile

That's why view of it.


I like that idea, but where does the fabric really lie? We stand on a planet spinning on it's own, around a star. The star spins around a galaxy. The galaxies are moving somehow in some direction at a very fast speed.

That makes me wonder, is the speed of light a universal constant or does it depend on the gravitational effects of nearby particles? If it depends on nearby gravity, it is pliable. If it's universal and our galaxy is in motion, then travelling in one direction should bring someone closer to the speed of light with less energy required than another...
Jita Squatter
End of Time Observatory
#18 - 2011-11-15 04:36:29 UTC
Ender wrote:
Remember, the enemy's gate is down.