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So CCP, how about telling your customers what is going on? Mmkay, thanks.

First post
Author
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-09-12 18:46:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


What is being requested is an overarching roadmap of where they plan on taking EVE in the coming months and years, especially given the amount of change recently. That is all.


Well here you go then: http://youtu.be/U72pU7WrsDs?t=1h24m14s

In this Fanfest 2013 video, CCP Seagull, Senior Producer of EVE Online (note not Vice producer) presents the overarching roadmap of where they plan on taking EVE in the coming months and years.



road map noun
: a map that shows the roads in a particular area
: a [detailed] plan for achieving a goal
Source: Merriam-Webester (it goes on to add "detailed" to the second definition in subsequent text)

Thanks for taking the effort to use your search-fu to find this. However, I think we can all agree that Fanfest announcements are anything but a proper roadmap.

From that video, I quote, "We will expand the universe with truly new things, but I'm not going to tell you what those new things are or what that new kind of space will be [...] because we haven't gotten to the part of our process where we really look into what's, like, truly involved in executing some of the plans and ideas we have..."

These are great ideas, and I am excited about them, but beyond a vague "5 year plan" powerpoint we were given no tangibles. This isn't a roadmap, rather an overarching vision. It is called a roadmap in this presentation, but it's not - there's no actionables, no concrete details, no deliverables - just lots of hype. Hype that I like, hype that I want to see, but still hype.

If I present that to my investors as a "Roadmap" they'd laugh me out of the office.

"Hey guys here's my roadmap for my Burger company. Uh, in like the latter half of my 5 year plan I'm going to expand into making Chicken Mole burgers but I haven't really looked into the specifics there yet - BUT I WILL."

Anyway, I digress. Here is what I would like to see:

A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-09-12 18:54:08 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-09-12 18:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Drax Concrilla
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?


Yes, not for content but for thought. I don't expect their PR department to drop any bombshells - but a simple statement at least shows that they care, especially when the community is in multiple uproars as of late. Which goes a long way.

Edit: As Nathalie LaPorte points out below, I would expect an explanation of recent ToS changes as well. After all that's where a lot of the uproar is right? Old devs leaving, new devs coming in, major ToS change that they tried to sneak in on us - these things do not exactly calm a player base.
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-09-12 19:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Conrad Makbure
Shalua Rui wrote:
Well... there still is Seagull and her big plan...



Which is...what? Yes, I did read the blog from Jan 15. Didn't really see anything "big" in there.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-09-12 19:02:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?


A satisfactory explanation would have to either explain or retract the impersonation changes. Otherwise, the statement wouldn't be believable or relevant.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#66 - 2013-09-12 20:04:35 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?


Yes, not for content but for thought. I don't expect their PR department to drop any bombshells - but a simple statement at least shows that they care, especially when the community is in multiple uproars as of late. Which goes a long way.

Edit: As Nathalie LaPorte points out below, I would expect an explanation of recent ToS changes as well. After all that's where a lot of the uproar is right? Old devs leaving, new devs coming in, major ToS change that they tried to sneak in on us - these things do not exactly calm a player base.

Sorry, what uproar, what major ToS change.
All that happened was legal probably told them that the ToS wording wasn't right for the way they already applied it and it needed an update. The '47 pages of uproar' is mainly people telling other people to stop screaming the sky is falling and a small number of people all posting the same tin foil complaint when CCP HAS ALREADY SAID THERE IS NO CHANGE IN APPLICATION!
Capped for emphasis. CCP has already answered this 'major' (read minor wording change with non existent application change) ToS rewording, and it's just the tinfoil brigade involved with 'what if' scenario's which could already have been applied. That's why it is a short topic unlike Marauders at 182 pages. 2 Devs have left. Oh no. Out of How many exactly, 20, 30? That's 5-10% at most. And perfectly normal industry turn over. Most companies don't even announce when a Dev leaves because it's so normal.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-09-12 20:10:05 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?


Yes, not for content but for thought. I don't expect their PR department to drop any bombshells - but a simple statement at least shows that they care, especially when the community is in multiple uproars as of late. Which goes a long way.

Edit: As Nathalie LaPorte points out below, I would expect an explanation of recent ToS changes as well. After all that's where a lot of the uproar is right? Old devs leaving, new devs coming in, major ToS change that they tried to sneak in on us - these things do not exactly calm a player base.

Sorry, what uproar, what major ToS change.
All that happened was legal probably told them that the ToS wording wasn't right for the way they already applied it and it needed an update. The '47 pages of uproar' is mainly people telling other people to stop screaming the sky is falling and a small number of people all posting the same tin foil complaint when CCP HAS ALREADY SAID THERE IS NO CHANGE IN APPLICATION!
Capped for emphasis. CCP has already answered this 'major' (read minor wording change with non existent application change) ToS rewording, and it's just the tinfoil brigade involved with 'what if' scenario's which could already have been applied. That's why it is a short topic unlike Marauders at 182 pages. 2 Devs have left. Oh no. Out of How many exactly, 20, 30? That's 5-10% at most. And perfectly normal industry turn over. Most companies don't even announce when a Dev leaves because it's so normal.


Putting things which aren't true in caps doesn't make them true.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-09-12 20:11:40 UTC
^goon alt
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-09-12 20:16:31 UTC
keep moving nothing to see here

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-09-12 20:17:06 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
^goon alt


Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to comment on that, according to TOS item 8.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#71 - 2013-09-12 20:20:49 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:
A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.

We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?

What way are we heading? What plan? What goals?

Nobody outside of CCP knows what's going on atm.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-09-12 20:23:19 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:


A simple statement from CCP, it could even be a paragraph, regarding the recent changes and how or if that will affect EVE. That's it. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it'd be nice to see.


We are still heading the same way and plan to continue developping the game with the same goals.

Would that satisfy you?


Yes, not for content but for thought. I don't expect their PR department to drop any bombshells - but a simple statement at least shows that they care, especially when the community is in multiple uproars as of late. Which goes a long way.



Bless. Would you like them to tickle you behind the ears while they tell you how much they care? Come on.. the roadmap is out there to read and we've no reason to think there's any change in direction. There's no reason for them to make any announcement just because you're feeling a bit insecure.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-09-12 20:26:00 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:


Bless. Would you like them to tickle you behind the ears while they tell you how much they care? Come on.. the roadmap is out there to read and we've no reason to think there's any change in direction. There's no reason for them to make any announcement just because you're feeling a bit insecure.


That's a good point, aside from the new driver, new vehicle, road signs which don't match the map, the car being immersed in water, and the police officer currently arresting me for impersonating myself, I have absolutely no reason to believe the car has changed direction. thanks for easing my concerns.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-09-12 20:34:26 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:


Bless. Would you like them to tickle you behind the ears while they tell you how much they care? Come on.. the roadmap is out there to read and we've no reason to think there's any change in direction. There's no reason for them to make any announcement just because you're feeling a bit insecure.


That's a good point, aside from the new driver, new vehicle, road signs which don't match the map, the car being immersed in water, and the police officer currently arresting me for impersonating myself, I have absolutely no reason to believe the car has changed direction. thanks for easing my concerns.


A new driver shouldn't make too much difference. That's one of the big reasons companies use roadmaps. As for the officer arresting you, isn't that supposed to be awaiting clarification? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3595059#post3595059)

Not sure whatthe rest of your analogy is supposed to mean..
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-09-12 20:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Drax Concrilla
Unless I'm missing something, which I'll admit is unfortunately possible, the last major talk of the roadmap (outside of fanfest) was in this Devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74192

That was a good dev blog. It gave some good insight. Something like that post-changes would be nice.

Regarding those of you in fantasy land regarding the ToS and its "enforcement": Guess what? It doesn't matter what they do currently, the ToS is the legally binding document and the way it is currently worded does open the door for future bans based on what would have been "acceptable" under the past wording.

Would you sign a legal contract giving someone the right to all of your assets, even if you knew that person wouldn't take them? No, no you wouldn't. While that is a reductio ad absurdum, the point holds.

Edit: As for drivers, ask insurance companies about that. I bet they'd tell you in unison that the drive does, indeed, matter.
Whip Van Rinkle
Crescent Industry
#76 - 2013-09-12 20:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Whip Van Rinkle
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Baggo Hammers wrote:
It is none of your business how they run their business first off. Last I checked CCP is a private company. And if you were actually IN the business you might have a better idea of what is going on..


Wrong. It is completely our business as we are what drives their company and their product is something we all enjoy.



Just out of curiousity, do you walk into McDonalds (or your favorite restaurant) and demand to know what their business plan is, what new burgers they are considering, etc.? I mean, as a paying customer, you are what drives their business, so it is completely your business, right?

It is CCP's company, and there's more to disclosure strategy than just the customer's desire to know the future. Get over it, and get over yourself. You're a video gamer, not a stockholder.
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-09-12 20:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Drax Concrilla
Whip Van Rinkle wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Baggo Hammers wrote:
It is none of your business how they run their business first off. Last I checked CCP is a private company. And if you were actually IN the business you might have a better idea of what is going on..


Wrong. It is completely our business as we are what drives their company and their product is something we all enjoy.



Just out of curiousity, do you walk into McDonalds (or your favorite restaurant and demand to know what their business plan is, what new burgers they are considering, etc.? I mean, as a paying customer, you are what drives their business, so it is completely your business, right?

It is CCP's company, and there's more to disclosure strategy than just the customer's desire to know the future. Get over it, and get over yourself. You're a video gamer, not a stockholder.


No, I don't have to. Those are public entities and as such their financial progress is tracked every year, generally with some plans for the next year in their Annual Report.

You can find that here if you wish: http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/mcd/investors/annual_reports.html

Plus, you're blowing the request out of proportion. I already explained above that I do not wish to see their annual report, or have the specifics of their business plan, revenue, etc. However, they do owe us an explanation - if you don't want to hold them accountable that is fine. As a paying customer it is my right to get an explanation or talk with my wallet.

Edit: Restaurants are also a bad example, we don't have a contractual agreement with restaurants now do we? There are agencies such as the FDA that regulate what is acceptable in that case. We do have a contractual agreement with CCP. See "Terms of Service" , "End License User Agreement", and "Privacy Policy", which is partly where this whole discussion began.
Whip Van Rinkle
Crescent Industry
#78 - 2013-09-12 20:53:44 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Whip Van Rinkle wrote:
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Baggo Hammers wrote:
It is none of your business how they run their business first off. Last I checked CCP is a private company. And if you were actually IN the business you might have a better idea of what is going on..


Wrong. It is completely our business as we are what drives their company and their product is something we all enjoy.



Just out of curiousity, do you walk into McDonalds (or your favorite restaurant and demand to know what their business plan is, what new burgers they are considering, etc.? I mean, as a paying customer, you are what drives their business, so it is completely your business, right?

It is CCP's company, and there's more to disclosure strategy than just the customer's desire to know the future. Get over it, and get over yourself. You're a video gamer, not a stockholder.


No, I don't have to. Those are public entities and as such their financial progress is tracked every year, generally with some plans for the next year in their Annual Report.

You can find that here if you wish: http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/mcd/investors/annual_reports.html

Plus, you're blowing the request out of proportion. I already explained above that I do not wish to see their annual report, or have the specifics of their business plan, revenue, etc. However, they do owe us an explanation - if you don't want to hold them accountable that is fine. As a paying customer it is my right to get an explanation or talk with my wallet.


You hit the nail on the head there, CCP is NOT a publicly held entity. And as a subscriber, they owe you the right to log in and play the game you subscribe to, nothing more. If you want to "talk with your wallet" because you feel like they "owe" you more, please do. You are not an investor, simply a subscriber. You will get whatever information they want to give you, when they want to give it to you. I'm so sick of everyone's entitlement issues these days. You're getting what you pay for. If you disagree, then unsub.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#79 - 2013-09-12 21:07:55 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:


Bless. Would you like them to tickle you behind the ears while they tell you how much they care? Come on.. the roadmap is out there to read and we've no reason to think there's any change in direction. There's no reason for them to make any announcement just because you're feeling a bit insecure.


That's a good point, aside from the new driver, new vehicle, road signs which don't match the map, the car being immersed in water, and the police officer currently arresting me for impersonating myself, I have absolutely no reason to believe the car has changed direction. thanks for easing my concerns.


A new driver shouldn't make too much difference. That's one of the big reasons companies use roadmaps. As for the officer arresting you, isn't that supposed to be awaiting clarification? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3595059#post3595059)

Not sure whatthe rest of your analogy is supposed to mean..

It has been "clarified", https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&find=unread and then further "clarified" on page 12 of the thread. It's in the sticky section of GD, kinda hard to miss.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#80 - 2013-09-12 21:31:12 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:


Edit: Restaurants are also a bad example, we don't have a contractual agreement with restaurants now do we? There are agencies such as the FDA that regulate what is acceptable in that case. We do have a contractual agreement with CCP. See "Terms of Service" and "Privacy Policy", which is partly where this whole discussion began.


Thank you for touching on that Drax.


And I want it to be known, to keep this from being locked like the "other" TOS threads, that this is an issue of transparency promised after the Incarna incident. There are videos I know most players from that time have seen, one with The Mittani as CSM rep, and Zulu...as well as a lengthy letter of explanation from Hilmar...both of which called for greater communication and transparency to the player base.

Don't get me wrong, we do get quite a bit of transparency when it comes to development. The Features and Ideas Threads essentially give us an open forum to speak our mind, and potentially "go back to the drawing board," if an idea is not the hottest.

But I am more concerned about the game I started playing being made "light and fluffy," rather than a wasteland being battled for resources...a universe cut off from humanity...still at the stages of being "Primal," and a race of immortal capsuleers, who are above even the law. That is what I am worried about.

I am worried about micro transactions. PLEX is one of the greatest systems devised. It works fine, and it dynamic to the in-game market. But when special ships, skillpoints, and the like start being doled out for money rather than the hard lessons, and time....that is when I worry.

I am worried about distinct, to almost any game, playstyles being nerfed....and I am even completely anti-scammer. I learned that one the hard way. But that is the thing...I didn't have it handed to me. I had to take the time, learn, build assets, train...and eventually I got mine back Twisted. Or what about spying? That is integral to this game...a game of economy and corporate espionage. False personas are necessary.

Or what about literally, 4 expansions that had added very little "new meat," and only rebalance? I love the rebalance, it has made several new ships, personal favorites, lol. But 4 expansions? C'mon. Odyssey was merely eye candy and the "dumbing down" of a trade. The market flooded with Explo site materials is proof enough of that.

I do not believe what I am asking for is unmerited. After all, I am a subscribed customer, who was promised by the CEO of the company, that there would be transparency to what the future of EVE holds. And if it is a future of micro-transactions, a cold, dark universe being transformed into "happy and frolicking in a forest meadow, with birds chirping at our shoulders", honestly, I would like to know, that way, myself, like many others who come to this game for the 'lack of rules,' whether we want to spend our money for entertainment purposes elsewhere.

A little bit of solid intelligence about what the future of EvE Online holds is not a lot to ask, and quite frankly it could go a long way in putting fears of many players to rest. It is an afternoon or two of writing a long dev blog, or "state of the game," if you will.

Clarification, is all that is asked.

Frankly, Zulu and Soundwave probably did find great offer at Riot, who are quite the rage right now. I would like to see them expand their capabilities, because as a developer, they have great potential.

But it doesn't change the fact that there are questions in our community that need answered. Or at the very least, clarified.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.