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Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers

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QuantumTunnel
Doomheim
#461 - 2011-11-14 22:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: QuantumTunnel
no missiles on naga? guess what you'll never see naga fleets. Most caldari do not have hyrbid turrets skills let alone t2 large hybrids. Naga isn't worth it now.

Naga with torps would have been a great anti-BS sniper fleet setup.
Iohet Nolafew
Perkone
Caldari State
#462 - 2011-11-14 22:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iohet Nolafew
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


NAGA


  • Missile role removed, now focuses as a hybrid platform
  • 10% Torpedo velocity per level swapped for 5% to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level


As pointed out, even with the velocity bonus, torpedoes have a too short of a range to be useful in practical situation with the Naga since it has the lowest mobility of all tier 3 battlecruisers and quite poor defensive options. Aligning this ship into a missile platform would have required a long range option as well, meaning the use of cruise missiles, which created a certain number of issues.

Specializing for a hybrid long range platform made more sense with the Naga role, which is why the damage bonus was appealing, especially when combined with CCP Tallest changes; it also makes more sense regarding Caldari tier philosophy, where highest tech 1 tiers usually are hybrid platforms (Merlin, Moa, Rokh).




So, uhm, like the Rokh the Naga will be optimally engaging at a range that is warpable? Any chance that the warp-to mechanics get looked at so that large rails aren't detrimental to a fleet completely?
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#463 - 2011-11-14 22:11:38 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Here is the latest update on these ships:

NAGA


  • Missile role removed, now focuses as a hybrid platform
  • 10% Torpedo velocity per level swapped for 5% to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level


As pointed out, even with the velocity bonus, torpedoes have a too short of a range to be useful in practical situation with the Naga since it has the lowest mobility of all tier 3 battlecruisers and quite poor defensive options. Aligning this ship into a missile platform would have required a long range option as well, meaning the use of cruise missiles, which created a certain number of issues.

Specializing for a hybrid long range platform made more sense with the Naga role, which is why the damage bonus was appealing, especially when combined with CCP Tallest changes; it also makes more sense regarding Caldari tier philosophy, where highest tech 1 tiers usually are hybrid platforms (Merlin, Moa, Rokh).




WHAT????

THNX A LOT... NOT... Cry
90% of caldary pilots dont use hybrids... look at usage of other hybrid ships...
and you just made NAGA only nice picture in market window...

Thnx a lot CCP... Cry

You know what... if you make NAGA hybrid platform... then you didnt need to create it in first place...
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#464 - 2011-11-14 22:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae
Make NAGA all missile platform... (torps and cruise)
- and decrease explosion velocity for cruise missiles...
- and add much speed for torps
- decrease flight time of torps

that would be it then...
2SLOW Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#465 - 2011-11-14 22:16:18 UTC
QuantumTunnel wrote:
no missiles on naga? guess what you'll never see naga fleets. Most caldari do not have hyrbid turrets skills let alone t2 large hybrids. Naga isn't worth it now.

Naga with torps would have been a great anti-BS sniper fleet setup.


Second that....Blink
XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#466 - 2011-11-14 23:20:22 UTC
I thought it was suspicious that the Naga was named similar to the Moa.

And now it's as crap as the Moa, a comedy ship. Boo.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#467 - 2011-11-14 23:36:44 UTC
Bug report

Ship: Talos

Module: 350mm Railguns II

Bug: changing ammo from javelin -> spike or spike -> javelin = only the weapon showing the group changes ammo, all others don't - everything seems to work properly on blasters (well they still suck without full lows of dmg mods)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#468 - 2011-11-14 23:38:14 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
I thought it was suspicious that the Naga was named similar to the Moa.

And now it's as crap as the Moa, a comedy ship. Boo.



Try talos and you'll love naga
Sevenfold Sins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2011-11-14 23:39:51 UTC
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I

Between its speed (isnt bad as a mission boat) and the fact that you can stagger the higher range launchers to constantly have missiles in space means that it had higher actual dps then the other caldari battlecruisers, 13k shield hp, 50% and up resists, and it fit nicely on the ship itself.

Mission Rating:

Lv4: The scarlet pirate (New mission for me, would rank around worlds collide level in difficulty against most mission fits) and should be able to handle most if not all combat lv4 missions

Lv3: Completed every lv3 thrown at the fit without blinking


All in all this ship can be extreamly effective when fitted correctly, it handles mission rats battlecruisers and lower faster then drones, doesnt have anywhere near as many range limitations as the pre-existing torp naga, could be effective in pvp with afew slight tweaks as the constant damage limits any sort of tank pulsing, and actually can have the tank to back it up.

So thanks CCP, you just turned a ship with great potential into one of the long line of useless caldari railgun platforms.
Damion Rayne
Panoptic
#470 - 2011-11-14 23:59:40 UTC
Any true Caldari will never have spent the 60 some days of training just to fly a Caldari gunboat, the Naga is now utterly useless. So instead of listening to us players and giving it duel bonus sets and keeping the launcher slots and giving it more CPU, you just rip the launchers off. Fail CCP, fail.

ROA
Miriiah
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#471 - 2011-11-15 00:04:17 UTC
I'd sorta still want the Naga to have Torps aswell :/ givingi t dual bonuses wouldn't really be a bad idea imo, should be able to fit torps aswell.
Zemkhoff
Infinite Density
#472 - 2011-11-15 00:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zemkhoff
QuantumTunnel wrote:
no missiles on naga? guess what you'll never see naga fleets. Most caldari do not have hyrbid turrets skills let alone t2 large hybrids. Naga isn't worth it now.

Naga with torps would have been a great anti-BS sniper fleet setup.


I'm sure PL are losing sleep over never having a powerhouse fleet comp like the 20km range, cruiser hp torp naga


Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
Make NAGA all missile platform... (torps and cruise)
- and decrease explosion velocity for cruise missiles...
- and add much speed for torps
- decrease flight time of torps

that would be it then...


Did you do this when suggesting bonuses and layout for the eagle?
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#473 - 2011-11-15 00:13:40 UTC
If you ever decide to give it torps again, at least make it so that you can fit all eight of them, a bit of tank and a microwarpdrive.

I couldn't do that.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#474 - 2011-11-15 00:24:43 UTC
I just tested the Tornado, the Talos and the Naga.

The Tornado is fine, it works, it shoots, it hurts, simple as that.

The Naga felt AWESOME to me. I have crappy skills (Large hybrid III, Battlecruiser III, most gunnery skills at IV, some of them at III), I had T1 regular ammo, and damn it really do damage. I tried both blasters and railguns (350mms).

The blasters worked just fine, with the nice range bonus (50% at BC V, gives you about 30km optimal + falloff), it really felt like a working weapon system, thank you CCP.

The railguns did pretty good hits (considering my skills) at 42/45km with antimatter (1200k per volley or something), and I consider this ship really worth flying.

The Talos, well, didn't try it myself, a friend did. But from what I heard...It sucks. I mean, he have T2 large blasters/railguns and everything, BC V and all that, and still, it doesn't work. Not enough slots imo. I mean, not enough lowslots to fit any sort of tank, not enough medslots to fit a shield tank. Add either a lowslot or a medslot, it would help the ship a little bit.

The Talos really needs some love in order to be worth flying :(

Can't talk about the Oracle, I didn't see it in the game yet.
Ghads Ghost
Katana Intergration Network
#475 - 2011-11-15 00:25:10 UTC
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I

Between its speed (isnt bad as a mission boat) and the fact that you can stagger the higher range launchers to constantly have missiles in space means that it had higher actual dps then the other caldari battlecruisers, 13k shield hp, 50% and up resists, and it fit nicely on the ship itself.

Mission Rating:

Lv4: The scarlet pirate (New mission for me, would rank around worlds collide level in difficulty against most mission fits) and should be able to handle most if not all combat lv4 missions

Lv3: Completed every lv3 thrown at the fit without blinking


All in all this ship can be extreamly effective when fitted correctly, it handles mission rats battlecruisers and lower faster then drones, doesnt have anywhere near as many range limitations as the pre-existing torp naga, could be effective in pvp with afew slight tweaks as the constant damage limits any sort of tank pulsing, and actually can have the tank to back it up.

So thanks CCP, you just turned a ship with great potential into one of the long line of useless caldari railgun platforms.






AS a mission runner I wasnt to happy with the new ships... they seemed useless unless you wanted to do PVP which I didn't...now I see this fit and it seemed that a silk purse was made out of a sows ear...but now with launchers gone completly this is just a waste of materials ...sorry CCP this Nage is now a fail fit
Mortalitis
Capital Fusion.
WE FORM V0LTA
#476 - 2011-11-15 00:53:43 UTC
Naga is now awesome. Caldari really need more Hybrid ships that are not lol grade.
Takon Orlani
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#477 - 2011-11-15 00:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Takon Orlani
The data shows that the naga projects 500 dps when set at 100 km, and it out damages the tornado beyond ~80km

Yea that sounds like a ****** ship to me.

The level of stupidity on this forum shouldnt surprise me, but manages to anyway.
Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#478 - 2011-11-15 01:01:22 UTC
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.

My Latest Video: Freestyle III
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
#479 - 2011-11-15 01:05:13 UTC
Thanks for making Naga a true tier3 Caldari boat. Cool

Don't forget to boost powergrid though!
Miriiah
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#480 - 2011-11-15 01:05:55 UTC
Shiroi Okami wrote:
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.


I want the ability to chose between torps and hybrids in pvp, by "dual bonus" I mean, 2 missile and 2 hybrid bonuses.

for pvp purposes.

I like torps but I dislike their uselessness in pvp(in most situations -stealthbombers) Exp velocity and range bonus plox