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The Reward Based Player

Author
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
Villore Accords
#1 - 2013-09-12 09:10:47 UTC
I play EVE to have fun and because its beautiful to look at. I keep one simple rule for myself:

"if this isnt fun, stop"

so naturally I rarely play missions, solo mine, haul in high sec, etc. If i need ISK to fund an activity that isnt self-supporting, ill choose one of the many many ways to have fun while still making money. How does a person justify, or make sense of, the time they spend not having fun? Do we behave similarly when engaging with other forms of entertainment?

Im wondering all this because, until recently, I assumed that everyone behaved like me. That solo-miners must genuinely be having a good time, that freighters were being piloted by happy EVE players! Now over the few weeks ive spent on these forums ive heard so many folks say they are going to start/stop a particular activity based on the rewards given for it. This to me, means that people are actually out there, spending time IN-GAME not having fun...so they can save up enough ISK to have fun later. Is this a design flaw, or is it delusional behavior on the part of the player?

another thought:

why do EVE forum members constantly request increased rewards for doing things? Is it just a misunderstanding of how fake (aka controlled) economies work? Or is it a broader misunderstanding of the concept of inflation?

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2013-09-12 09:16:04 UTC
oh look, a philosopher! :)

j/k, I dont personally think its a design flaw. I kinda like the concept. You do something in Eve, such as PvE, mining, whatever, to generate income. This income ideally is then spent on things that allow you to have fun, or to work towards a goal. Such as, buying ships for PvP, working towards a super (which you will then realize its no fun to fly heh).

Why should the way towards that be tedious? (well ideally its not tedious, but heh, in Eve, it is)
Because it adds meaning to your achievement!

For me, the main reason why Eve is so good is because everything you do, or others do to you, has a meaning. Losing your super, or your shiny mach does have a meaning. Blowing someone else up has a meaning, not because you have one kill more, but because you most likely took something from someone else, that had a meaning to them.
Jim Era
#3 - 2013-09-12 11:19:48 UTC
I enjoy mining all alone in hi-sec..... *twitches*

Wat™

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#4 - 2013-09-12 11:24:11 UTC
Eve forum members want more rewards for the same reasons all MMO forums are full of requests for buffs to their own class/ship/playstyle and nerfs to others.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#5 - 2013-09-12 11:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Enthropic wrote:
Blowing someone else up has a meaning, not because you have one kill more, but because you most likely took something from someone else, that had a meaning to them.

That's the ideal, problem is, there is a growing group of players on which the latter does no longer apply... that's when the concept starts to fall flat on it's face... but that's the same in every capitalist society, so it is expected.

Rhivre wrote:
Eve forum members want more rewards for the same reasons all MMO forums are full of requests for buffs to their own class/ship/playstyle and nerfs to others.

A big truth, written casually. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-09-12 11:29:58 UTC
My reward is separating the foolish, the meek and the "entitled" ( far be it from me to discriminate ) from their ISK. Blink


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

TheBlueMonkey
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#7 - 2013-09-12 11:44:28 UTC
A lot or people don't realise that it's a better use of their time to buy and sell a plex than it is for them to sit any mine at 20mil an hour.

Others actually enjoy it, so, egh, whatever floats their boat.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#8 - 2013-09-12 11:54:29 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
A lot or people don't realise that it's a better use of their time to buy and sell a plex than it is for them to sit any mine at 20mil an hour.


This assumes one can just go sit down for 2 hours and earn their hourly rate any time they feel like it and then go spend it on a plex. Most people's jobs don't work that way.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Annie Moennan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-09-12 12:12:53 UTC
Fun is subjective.

people who complain about not having fun are likely having fun complaining about it
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#10 - 2013-09-12 12:34:59 UTC
Enjoying Eve?

Preposterous!

Invalid signature format

Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2013-09-12 12:37:19 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Enthropic wrote:
Blowing someone else up has a meaning, not because you have one kill more, but because you most likely took something from someone else, that had a meaning to them.

That's the ideal, problem is, there is a growing group of players on which the latter does no longer apply... that's when the concept starts to fall flat on it's face... but that's the same in every capitalist society, so it is expected.


keep in mind, the fact that losses have meaning is not necessarily tied to hefty ISK losses. Say you lose a PvP ship, and your loss is fully covered by SRP, so in the end, you personally dont lose much ISK, however your loss is still meaningful. Simply because you now miss out on the rest of the fun..and wont be able to simply rejoin the fight. Or you were solo roaming and had to travel 20 systems to find your targets.. annoying. So its not just an ISK loss its also a loss of time and opportunity.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-09-12 12:43:19 UTC
I am currently on a burnout with EVE right now I log to check buy/sell orders and the occasional mining if needed but most of the time I am playing other games (Rome 2 is a blast) while eve is open.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#13 - 2013-09-13 23:07:49 UTC
Well, you kinda went through some tedium to get something. By the sweat of your brow etcetera. Ever played Bioshock? Anyway, I'm drifing off. But yes, since Eve is a knowledge game and not a twitch game, it entices you to come up with plans to convert effort into PVP assets as efficiently as possible. As your experience grows it becomes easier to accumulate a given amount of ISK, at least to the intelligent, observant player. Maybe even more important is the ability to not lose it in a dumb way. This does include risk, however. You don't get to live an easier life unless you shape those conditions yourself, by force if necessary. And by yourself I mean you and your corp- and alliance mates, as teaming up is mandatory to achieve larger objectives that ultimately translate in easier, safer income generation.

Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
why do EVE forum members constantly request increased rewards for doing things? Is it just a misunderstanding of how fake (aka controlled) economies work? Or is it a broader misunderstanding of the concept of inflation?

I'd guess a bit of both, but also the inability to tap into more convenient income streams. Say you are in a large alliance. People have POS, need fuel, and that one dude keeps losing the same type of ship. You can strike some deals here. Sure, you could make more ISK if you sold your stuff at a competative price. But in my experience the effort and wait time involved in trade is not worth giving up the market velocity you can achieve filling actual demand. Balance is key off course but you get the idea.

Example. I buy fuel from this dude. It gets jetted at the POS on request and I just fork over ISK because we have a history of fair deals. I don't have to haul and it's even cheaper! Meanwhile the solo-corp-tax-haven-CEO is toiling to fuel his hungry POS. Such a player runs increased risks on top, as the more organized corps have more free time and fast ISK to PVP.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#14 - 2013-09-13 23:40:53 UTC
The trouble with your thinking is, the answer for most players is to go play something else. That's not good for EVE and while players are bored, they don't want EVE to fail, crash and burn.

It doesn't matter what you do, Mine, mission, PvP or explore. Do it long enough you burn out. I'm seeing a lot of burn out in EVE. It fades in time and for the sake of the game I hope it does again.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-09-14 00:16:05 UTC
switch it up is my advice. mining is a background activity if you do it in backwater systems but it's not good ISK/hr. missions are repetitive and boring. low sec/null/wh activities require concentration and patience.

maybe this game is really for people who want to scam and steal because the PvE is quickly boring. that said, i don't need much for my occasional pubbie fleet ups and if eve ever annoys or depresses me i just checkmy skill queues and log out.

forums.  serious business.

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-09-14 00:48:54 UTC
Personally, reward has nothing to do with what I do in game. I do what I think is enjoyable.

I could be making more money doing other activities, but I find those things more boring so I don't do them.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#17 - 2013-09-14 04:15:03 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
A lot or people don't realise that it's a better use of their time to buy and sell a plex than it is for them to sit any mine at 20mil an hour.

Others actually enjoy it, so, egh, whatever floats their boat.


I would quite enjoy 20M an hour right now

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-09-14 05:44:05 UTC
Nulsec became too much of a job than a game. PvP'ing in general became cost-prohibitive for an off-TZ, limited playtime schedule that leaves me solo more often than not.

And that's why I'm now retired. 85 million skill points, bumming around highsec in a catalyst doing level 1 missions.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

Jim Era
#19 - 2013-09-14 05:54:19 UTC
Ok, you all fell for it, everyone in this thread must donate 20m ISK to the bounty on me for posting.
That is my reward, do it if you dare....or are you all too scared?
I might wardec you, or destroy you alliance from the inside....

Wat™