Crime & Punishment

Anything can be programmed (though not always practical or a good idea). Just an idea based on the impunity with which those with low sec status can navigate high sec for their profit.

As is stands, other than not being able to make the scene dueling outside of Jita little is denied you.

Wow yea I spend 90 percent of my Eve playtime carebearing and I'm not sure what to say to all that...

Reduced align time based on sec status, web and scram towers at the gates...

Yes you are correct this is a computer gave and with some patch any change could be applied. CCP could make it where you couldn't disengage your green safety and remove the war dec system thus putting an end to non consensual PVP in highsec. This would make it a "safe zone".

Please someone gank my Hulk so I can wake up from this nightmare!

Usually when I post I stay in character and go on and on about the Code and bot aspirancy and "no permit". Today I want to explain why ganking is NOT too easy and that suggestions like the OPs are entirely self serving and not in the interest of making Eve a better game. So, for this post, I am not a beautiful, red-headed, mass murderer....

Laboring under the common illusion that Highsec means safe, the carebears believe that, when violence comes acallin', that something must be broken and the magic word "unbalanced" is invoked. As most long time Eve players know, unbalanced is more of a feature of Eve rather than a bug and like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. They focus on one small aspect of the gank and demand that things be changed to, and this is the important point, allow them to respond in the way they want to.

They ignore the plethora (Jefe, what is a plethora?) of ways they could have avoided the gank in the first place, the responses they can make to a gank that will improve their chances in the future (Buy a Permit. ... doh, sorry) and instead look for some way to do back to the ganker what the ganker just did to them. Of course, without the loss of ship and security status and ISK that the ganker just experienced.

Now, I have a perfect -10 security status. As has been pointed out, anyone and everyone can shoot me on sight. Having a hundred killrights on me (and there are that many available right now) would not get you one extra shot at me. So lets look at what you CAN do.

Yesterday, I logged on in Kino. I flew a noob ship over to PI station and pulled CONCORD. I then went back to the station I always gank out of and waited out my 15 minute timer. I describe this because, now, before the first gank, I am visible in local for 15 minutes, flashing red.

This does not go unnoticed. Several miners comment in local that Spine Ripper is present, even warning other miners, if untanked, to dock up. My scout observes a couple miners doing so. Most continue to mine in the White Glaze belt I am watching. After 15 minutes, the flashing goes away. The helpful miners then warn the others that the timer is up and a gank is imminent. The miner population in the ice remains unchanged. Having selected a Retriever with a poor tank I undock, warp to my instawarp, and then to my scout. My undock is reported by a loitering Mack and the warnings are REPEATED in local. I arrive on target, lock and blast the Ret into expanding gas. CONCORD arrives, surveys the scene and confiscates my Catalyst. Having satisfied the deal apparently brokered in the past by Vladamir Putin, just handing over my weapon of mass destruction is good enough for CONCORD, and I warp to safety. I pull CONCORD out of the ice, reship into a new Catalyst, and await the next gank.

OK, what could the "victim" have done to prevent losing his ship? (I KNOW, I KNOW, buy a permit!) Well, besides that they could:

1) Tank their ship. I'm a solo ganker hitting in a .7 system. My window, even at 700+ DPS, is narrow.
2) Pay attention to local. Gankers don't appear out of thin air (space) despite what some miners must believe. There is usually lots of warning signs.
3) Dscan. Its not much but the appearance of Catalysts should be enough to get any miner moving.
4) DONT SIT STILL! The gank Catalyst has short range blasters. If you are moving its hard to get a good tight warp in.
5) I know this is miner (major) heresy... Don't AFK mine. I see so many mining ships sitting in belts, lasers off, waiting for the guy who is in charge of redocking and emptying the ore hold to get back from smoke break. These miners die.
6) Get in a Griffin and sit in the ice field. This won't help YOU mine but its a big deterrent to the ganker. Nobody likes being jammed and the ganker has no time to waste waiting for the cycle to end. He will go somewhere else.
7) Fly a Procurer or Skiff. CCP gave you the damn things so you would stop dying so much. Use them.

None of this is "You shot me, I shoot you". You cannot hurt me the same way I hurt you because I am not ISK focused. What you perceive as an egregious affront to decency, I see as a cost of business. My loss is built into the equation. Many miners argue that this isn't even really a "loss" because I don't care about it. So give up on trying to make things equal by costing me ISK. My ISK is spent when I arrive on top of you.

The bottom line is this. If you got ganked, you are dumb. No, maybe not dumb. Uneducated, ill informed, delusional are all better descriptions of a miner who got ganked. If you get ganked after reading this post, THEN you are dumb.

Yeah yeah yeah, some good advice there, but the OP is talking about changing the kill rights to be able to go after the specific ganker(s) that killed him by having the kill rights available on more than just one cheap Catalyst, this means he can actually hunt the ganker and make his ability to gank more difficult. At the moment most High Sec dwellers are utterly scared of CONCORD and quite rightly so, so they are utterly passive. Of course its self serving, he wants the ability to go after the person who ganked him and get some real revenge, emergent gameplay at its best!

I know people who have ganked, there is of course a difference between people who stay -10 and are very effective as they have scouts and the more causal ganker, I tend to keep my eyes open to see what people do and I keep tabs on people saying things on the forums, so I know how you guys operate. What I am really getting at is that the biggest reason people do not go after gankers even -10 ones is that they are very aware of how easy it is to get Concorded, the kill rights make it easy to operate so they can not make an error. Think about it, I know the crime watch system is a lot better than it was, but many people are nervous of CONCORD so do err on the safe side missing up on kill opportuinities, don't forget that you are dealing with people who don't normally do this, but what the OP is asking for is the ability to get meaningful revenge himself, though if it gets sold it should revert to one ship only like it is now.

It is a very good post, but still it misses what the OP was getting at, the ability for him to take meaningful revenge!

It's straight economics. If I get to take down 30-40million worth of their catalysts by camping their dock then the economic calculus changes. It is no longer as profitable for them to run an extortion racket or missioner gank squad.

You are acting with impunity. This is a gank alt. It goes from the station to the gank with no consequences. All you have to do is have one main with a good standing and it never has to leave the station other than to gank. With undocking invulnerability and smart use of bookmarks you cannot be stopped.

As you posted above, there are no consequences for this toon and nothing can be done to stop it's activities.

This thread is about why this is so and proposals to do something about it because it is too profitable for you and your victims have zero recourse that makes economic sense other than to reward you and finance your game play with game mechanics as they stand.

I get it. The status quo serves you very well. I simply think a little too well and the Kill Rights concept needs a CCP hand on the scale.

Sorry dude, not your call.

We can give CCP the benefit of the doubt and assume they keep a close eye on this...or is it that the victims have no recourse and risk harassment for posting in the forums about it so keep quiet and instead have a choice to:

1. Let other players leech off of their effort and pay extortion fees.

2. Abandon their current game play even though it has the most minimal economic impact on others (ie missioning) and relocate (not likely to be a solution).

3. Or completely alter their game play as if you can't beat them, join them?



Regardless, the question remains: Why have Kill Rights if they accomplish virtually *nothing* as far as deterring ganking and rewarding the victims?

Security status for one shows other pilots that you might be a possible danger. A little secret of Eve is all pilots in system show up in in this chat thing named "Local". If you see a whole bunch of -10 pilots there might be cause for alarm.

Also low security status allows pilots in that system to freely engage them. Myself and many others do just that with sensor boosted ships at stations and gates. Nothing like podding a -10 with over a billion ISK in implants.


Kill rights does just what it says. It allows the owner of the kill right to engage(Kill) the target ship and pod. You can even set it to your corp, alliance, or even make it available to the public. You can even request to be paid for the kill.


What security status and kill rights don't do is make their ships align slower, offline modules or guns, scram or web at gates or anything that would make them a defenseless target. They didn't get that opportunity to make you defenseless when they ganked you so why should you get that advantage. I understand they're committing a "Criminal act" but all lowsec PVP falls under this as well.


I do way more mining and mission running than PVP but it's the PVP that makes Eve what it is. You might not consider being ganked PVP but it is.

I don't get ganked when I mine and I don't pay for some silly permit (One FAILED attempt). I don't get ganked when I run missions. I don't get ganked when I haul items from one station to another. There's a reason for this.... Just follow some very basic principles and you are fairly safe. If you choose not to do so and get ganked remember you made that choice. Eve is a PVP game and you made yourself a target for a PVP attack.

You have to stop blaming others for your failure and figure out what you can do to succeed. I've been playing Eve for four years now and I once was bitter against PVP. Being on the losing end will do that to you. I didn't stay bitter for long because I figured out what I needed to do in order to succeed. If all else fails remember Eve is just a game... Yes I know CCP likes to say "Eve is real" LOL