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Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-11-14 20:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
with all of the pvp nerfs im not sure exactly how this game works anymore.

Have they nerfed the ability to remoterep people who are aggressed, and then immediatly dock? Or can you still do that?

I've asked around in-game and get mixed answers

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2 - 2011-11-14 20:20:42 UTC
basically if you remote rep somone shooting somone else pretend you just shot that person as well.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-11-14 20:21:47 UTC
When did they change this?

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#4 - 2011-11-14 20:23:16 UTC
last weeks patch. This includes all remotes

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-11-14 20:23:17 UTC

Exactly.

Pilots A,B,C.

A shoots B,
C reps A,
C has to stop repping,
C will get informed that he gets flagged if he wants to rep A again and if so,
C gets flagged so he can be shot by B.

Works with a D that reps B too, just the other way round.

Easy, hu ? XD
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2011-11-14 20:26:46 UTC
Yeah im not looking for an explaination of the aggression mechanics, i just wasnt aware this was changed.

CCP really needs to stop completely ******* their PVP players over. There was no notice on the website of this change, and this is a -major gameplay change- with virtually no notice.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
proxwar
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-11-14 20:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: proxwar
Solstice Project wrote:

Exactly.

Pilots A,B,C.

A shoots B,
C reps A,
C has to stop repping,
C will get informed that he gets flagged if he wants to rep A again and if so,
C gets flagged so he can be shot by B.

Works with a D that reps B too, just the other way round.

Easy, hu ? XD


I think he means

A shoots B
C reps A
C has to stop repping,
C will be informed he'll be flagged if he reps A again
C reps A again, get flagged

Would C still be able to run and insta dock with agression as they always have, or do they get the aggression timer to stop them repping and running with no concequence?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#8 - 2011-11-14 20:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Terminal Insanity wrote:
with all of the pvp nerfs im not sure exactly how this game works anymore.

Have they nerfed the ability to remoterep people who are aggressed, and then immediatly dock? Or can you still do that?

I've asked around in-game and get mixed answers


If you remote-rep someone who's in combat, you'll get a warning box and then you'll inherit their agression countdowns. AFAIK, you still have to wait out the timer, even if you choose to dock.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Reeno Coleman
#9 - 2011-11-14 20:29:33 UTC
wait. you call remote-repping pirates then hiding your ass in a station PVP?

ok then, i guess you got screwed over. sorry.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#10 - 2011-11-14 20:35:34 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Yeah im not looking for an explanation of the aggression mechanics, i just wasn't aware this was changed.

CCP really needs to stop completely ******* their PVP players over. There was no notice on the website of this change, and this is a -major game play change- with virtually no notice.


erm...yes there was:

Quote:


10/11/2011
Game mechanics change to be applied during downtime on Thursday, November 10

A part of the next client update will feature a change to aggression mechanics in high security space.

To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the criminal flag and possible consequences.


That was front page headline news - go to www.eveonline.com

This space for rent.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2011-11-14 20:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
The patchnotes fail to state the severity of the change

Quote:
To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics in regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage.


Aggression timers are NOT criminal timers. Aggression is NOT a criminal action and does NOT result in CONCORD like a Criminal action would.

Regardless of your (or my) opinion of the change, the fact remains that this change was made with virtually no notice to the eve community. And even for the few who read the patchnotes, we were mislead.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-14 20:42:11 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
When did they change this?


they didint it always worked that way.

Only thing which changed is that you get that awesome warning which you switch off anyway.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2011-11-14 20:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
AlleyKat wrote:
erm...yes there was:

Quote:

Game mechanics change to be applied during downtime on Thursday, November 10

A part of the next client update will feature a change to aggression mechanics in high security space.

To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the criminal flag and possible consequences.



Let me underline the important parts for you, and then let me change the notice to reflect the ACTUAL changes that occurred. You will see the difference then hopefully.

WHAT IT CURRENTLY SAYS:
Quote:

Game mechanics change to be applied during downtime on Thursday, November 10

A part of the next client update will feature a change to aggression mechanics in high security space.

To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the criminal flag and possible consequences.

This implys it only effects timers that would result in CONCORD actions being taken against your ship.


WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE SAID:
Quote:

Game mechanics change to be applied during downtime on Thursday, November 10

A part of the next client update will feature a change to aggression mechanics in high security space.

To benefit the EVE community at large, a major change has been made to game mechanics regarding aggression flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who engages in an aggressive act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the aggression flag and possible consequences.

Note how these simple changes now accurately reflect the true rule changes.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-11-14 20:56:03 UTC
No, sucht mechanics involving CONCORD has been changed long time ago, right after Incursions.

And as far as i can tell, sharing timers doesnt work either way, or at least thats what i read here and there.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2011-11-14 20:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
These are the only changes I know of:

Patch notes for Incursion 1.2, released February 15, 2011
wrote:
NPC's
* It is no longer possible to lose a ship to CONCORD by only using logistic modules (like remote armor repairer, shield transporter, energy transfer array, ...) or logistic drones. They cannot be activated in high-sec on targets with Global Criminal Countdown (GCC) or outlaws and they will be deactivated if the target gets GCC while being assisted.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2886

Patch notes for Incarna 1.1.3 wrote:
Client Update #2
To be released November 10, 2011

* To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics in regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the criminal flag and possible consequences.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

I believe the latter to be referring to an outlaw flag.
Written Word
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-11-14 20:59:16 UTC
There is no PvP worth caring about in highsec
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-11-14 21:02:11 UTC
Written Word wrote:
There is no PvP worth caring about in highsec


well mercenaries "griefing" an noob corp to get payment alternatively offer the protection to such Big smile
It works, my first few months were affected by it, we actually scrapped some **** and payed two bil / not at once but Cool

or the fun RvB i heard.
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#18 - 2011-11-14 21:04:28 UTC
Regardless of whether you like the change or not, how can anyone in their right mind not see the logic behind it?

It makes perfect sense! If person A is shooting person B and person C decides to help then person C is now part of the conflict. Common sense demands this.

Real world analogies have a way of failing to translate to Eve but I'll try:

If person A is escaping the bank he just robbed from person B and person C is driving the getaway car how would person C not be guilty of a crime?

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Lord Wiggin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-11-14 21:13:14 UTC
LOL, seriously, did everyone know about this change but you? Shocked

And it should have been in the game all along, why should you be able to get a perfectly safe rep anywhere...Roll
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2011-11-14 21:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Famble wrote:
Regardless of whether you like the change or not, how can anyone in their right mind not see the logic behind it?

It makes perfect sense! If person A is shooting person B and person C decides to help then person C is now part of the conflict. Common sense demands this.

Real world analogies have a way of failing to translate to Eve but I'll try:

If person A is escaping the bank he just robbed from person B and person C is driving the getaway car how would person C not be guilty of a crime?


And i do agree, it does make sense.

My problem isnt with the new rule, its that they changed it without any real notice.

Luckily, all of the recent PVP nerfs have made me so pessimistic that i actually assumed they probably ****** with it, and asked around before repping my aggressed alt, so i didn't lose my scimitar today.

I'm still worried about future rule changes, and if i'll be as lucky then.

When i said CCP was ******* their PVPers over, i wasnt referring to this rule, i was referring to their previous changes, as well as their failure to properly disclose this change completely in this case.

I guess the fact i wanted to take advantage of this 'feature' automatically makes me a bad/immoral/whatever person, so many will just completely ignore the point of my post because of that.

Perhaps the winter expansion could include a section in the login screen, properly detailing all of the rule changes in the past 6 months at least. You cant expect players to keep up with all the new rules, especially when they are barely accurate on the rare occasion they are announced, and not just buried in a patchnote.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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