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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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My first battleship

Author
Overlord Starforger
Temporis Industries
#1 - 2013-09-10 15:32:58 UTC
So...

I have been getting ready to buy my first battleship.

I have the cash to replace it should it all go bottoms up and the necessary skills.

I am trained in Amarr and Caldari ships up to battleship so either are good Smile

I will primarily be using it for lvl 3 eventually 4 security missions but I like to join my corp for incursions etc every now and again.

I was considering either:

A) The Apocalypse
B) The Raven (as an Amarr pilot I discovered missiles a few weeks ago and I'm having a blast, literallyBlink)

Any help on this choice (or different ships entirely) and possible fits for either would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-10 15:43:14 UTC
All the necessary skills to sit in a battleship or to fly one? With a month-old character, I expect it's the first, not the second.

Stick with Battlecruisers and L3 missions and get your core and support skills up. Battleships perform poorly with average skills.
Overlord Starforger
Temporis Industries
#3 - 2013-09-10 16:31:57 UTC
Ok, well if this is true, likewise Caldari or Amarr for above described activities....

I was flying a Harbinger which was ok, but im looking at the Drake with snazzy missiles P
Baggo Hammers
#4 - 2013-09-10 16:33:30 UTC
Probably best to try out the Drake and missiles before you commit to a BS. And of course a BS without support skills is like a giant frig.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

Eli Kzanti
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-10 17:15:45 UTC
Not to mention how hideously horrible taking most BS into a level 3 is. They just cant apply damage to the smaller rats, which are basically the only rats in level 3s <_<

Still, the guys who do that tend to be easy pickings. Dont be one of those guys. And make sure you have your support skills well trained before you ever step into a BS, one month of SP isnt going to cut it. I tell newbros that if you cant T2 tank it and dont have good cap skills, dont try it <_<
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#6 - 2013-09-10 21:55:20 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
All the necessary skills to sit in a battleship or to fly one? With a month-old character, I expect it's the first, not the second.

Stick with Battlecruisers and L3 missions and get your core and support skills up. Battleships perform poorly with average skills.

It's very easy to go size-crazy and try to get into a larger hull as soon as possible.

But this is often a very slow and expensive way.

A battleship is actually not very good for PvE until L4 or similar, it's too slow, too large and optimised for using weapons that are too large for the targets.

So keep that in mind and stick to medium hulls (Cruiser/BC) while you get your support skills up for the modules and weapons you intend to use on your next ship.

Always skill for modules/launchers/turrets and other support before you skill for the actual hull.

And this goes even more for PvP ...

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-10 22:25:06 UTC
The Drake is a good ship for Level-3 mission running; it's fairly forgiving if properly set up, and can bring quite respectable firepower to bear. It's the sort of ship that wants the skills for Tech-II tank modules, though, and serious investment in shielding and missile skills as well as the Battlecruiser skill itself.

When you're comfortable and confident with the Drake, then the Raven is a good L4 mission runner; unlike the Apoc, it's not limited in what varieties of damage it can deal, but it requires an active tanking philosophy (using shield boosters) as opposed to the Drake's reliance on passive shield recharging. It's also going to need drones for secondary weapons (not much else will help against NPC frigates), and it will absolutely need Tech-II shield hardeners.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#8 - 2013-09-11 00:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: MadMuppet
I am just chiming in to warn of the dangers of going too big too fast. Battleships are for L4 missions. Yes, you can use them in L3 missions, but you'll find, in terms of time, that they are generally not worth it if your skills are low. Get a good battlecruiser and then work on your 'support' skills so you can use the T2 versions of things like shield or armor hardeners, T2 drones are a good thing (they can save your afterburner, if you know what I mean.)

I've gone too fast myself and screwed up royally. I can honestly say I've easily lost 2 billion isk due to going too fast. Just because you 'can' fly it doesn't mean you 'should'.

Get good at L3s and then go to L4s, READ THE MISSION REPORTS, then do the L4s. If you fly blindly in to L4s like most do on L1-L3 missions you will find yourself broke quick.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Ned Brandtor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-09-11 08:45:15 UTC
Overlord Starforger wrote:
(as an Amarr pilot I discovered missiles a few weeks ago and I'm having a blast, literallyBlink)



Umm I am very new here, so please do not take my words as a sign of trolling or flame war provokation, but what is so good in missiles if we are talking about PvE? Lasers do not require ammunition and ammunition cost money. I understand , that in PvP ability to change damage type, freedom of range and cap life spare are great bonuses, but in missioning? It seems to me, that pilots in Amarr ships should have their life easy with just turning on beam guns and picking up targets one by one. No need to care about reloading ammunition or how much it will cost you if you start firing too early or too late... If your fit is cap stable, you can fire instantly for no costs...
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-09-11 08:58:58 UTC
It's been mentionned already, but after a month, you're certainly not skilled enough to properly fly a battleship. Heck I don't even fly any with 33mil SP because I don't know how to fit them well, there's just too many modules slots for me and I don't have any BS sized weapon skilled to T2 yet.

However, I've run L4s in a T2 tanked drake and although slow, it does work for most missions I got, but some have just too much damage to tank solo with it.

That said, if you keep your training focused, unlike me, you could very well be ready for it within a few months but you'll really want to train your core and fitting skills up, as well as the tanking and weapons for a well-rounded battleship, provided you don't stray much from the skillplan.

I haven't done any incursions, but I've read quite a bit on it and there, I think you might get a chance of joining your corp on them a bit sooner if you manage to get a fit with at least 70% resist across the board and enough buffer for your logi-bro to keep you alive, but you will probably have troubles hitting stuff because of tracking or range given your limited skills for now.

Another option though, might be to train for logi and learn about it. It won't help you right away for L4s, but you can join the corp in incursions while you're skilling for battleships and at the same time get a fairly generous income to help you get started once you can effectively fly a battleship.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-09-11 09:09:42 UTC
Ned Brandtor wrote:
Overlord Starforger wrote:
(as an Amarr pilot I discovered missiles a few weeks ago and I'm having a blast, literallyBlink)



Umm I am very new here, so please do not take my words as a sign of trolling or flame war provokation, but what is so good in missiles if we are talking about PvE? Lasers do not require ammunition and ammunition cost money. I understand , that in PvP ability to change damage type, freedom of range and cap life spare are great bonuses, but in missioning? It seems to me, that pilots in Amarr ships should have their life easy with just turning on beam guns and picking up targets one by one. No need to care about reloading ammunition or how much it will cost you if you start firing too early or too late... If your fit is cap stable, you can fire instantly for no costs...

The problem with guns, especially with low skills, is the range and tracking. If the target is outside your optimal or has a bit too much transversal, you will hit for less than your (volley damage-target resist). That means you need to manage range and transversal, by using a prop mod, moving in the right direction, etc.
Whereas, to summarize, missiles hit for full damage within their range, so either you are in range or you're not. There is some subtlety with explosion radius and velocity, but that becomes more of a concern with BS-sized missiles than lower ones. It also means, that targets are less likely to dodge your shots when getting close, while it can become very problematic with med or large guns if a rat gets in close orbit range.

Another concern about lasers, only the T1 ammos are unlimited. Faction and T2 take damage over time and vanish when completely shattered. You can stick to T1 ammos, but if you get T2 guns, you lose a lot by sticking to T1 ammos.

Also, lasers only deal EM/therm damage, so when you run a mission with gurista or serpentis rats, it'll take you much longer to kill them than shooting at blood or sansha.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-09-11 11:00:09 UTC
Guys n gals of newbee Q&A, please.

Size only counts for something when you know how to operate it ;)

Skip the BS when you've barely stepped out of your station and stick to the smaller stuff.

Hull upgrades IV
Mechanic IV
Powergrid and CPU Management V
Capacitor Management IV or V
Shield Management IV or V
Secondary Gunnery or Missile skills at IV
Drones V
Scout Drone operation V
Secondary drone skills to III or IV

****

Train that, THEN look at upsizing to a BS.
I'd still recommend a couple more skills at IV but consider that a bare minimum.

Pliz.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#13 - 2013-09-11 14:45:48 UTC
Neesha Marinn wrote:
Size only counts for something when you know how to operate it ;)


Big smile
Tialano Utrigas
Caldari Minutemen
The Minutemen.
#14 - 2013-09-11 15:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tialano Utrigas
Neesha Marinn wrote:
Guys n gals of newbee Q&A, please.

Size only counts for something when you know how to operate it ;)

Skip the BS when you've barely stepped out of your station and stick to the smaller stuff.

Hull upgrades IV
Mechanic IV
Powergrid and CPU Management V
Capacitor Management IV or V
Shield Management IV or V
Secondary Gunnery or Missile skills at IV
Drones V
Scout Drone operation V
Secondary drone skills to III or IV

****

Train that, THEN look at upsizing to a BS.
I'd still recommend a couple more skills at IV but consider that a bare minimum.

Pliz.


I would like to add to this by suggesting Weapon Upgrades V and Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV (Are they still called that?)

Otherwise trying to fit the thing will be a nightmare, plus it allows T2 Damage mods in the lows.
TheBlueMonkey
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#15 - 2013-09-11 15:42:27 UTC
When I first started playing I rushed to get into a BS, literally, as soon as I had large guns and BS 1 I was in a megathron..... it sucked... so so bad.

so bad infact that I sold it almost immediately and went back to BC's.

BS's are really support skill heavy, I'd suggest you stick with a harbinger until you've got all the core skills up, especially the cap management ones. Then go for an amarr BS and go incursioning :)
Overlord Starforger
Temporis Industries
#16 - 2013-09-11 15:44:37 UTC
Well thanks for the tips guys!

Looks like I will stick to a battle cruiser for now as I am well aware that larger guns cant hit anything frigate sized!

My main complaint with Amarr ships is that once the frigates are under your guns, you cant hit em and also the non switchable damage types.

Stopping firing when out of cap is also bad news too as you loose your active tank AND guns What?

So sticking to missiles....

Drake fitting anyone? Big smile (Im betraying Amarr... for nowTwisted)
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-09-11 16:05:28 UTC
All i did was get tech 2 pulses for my apoc, then i could run most level 4's in amarr space with low skills.

Your probably better off going for the raven though so u dont have to stick to amarr space or decline any guristas/angels missions that tend to show up once in a while.

sry i dont have a drake fit, but im sure someone will

Also with pulses you dont really need great fitting skills either. and with level 3 amarr bs and scorch u can hit out to what 70km or so on the apoc 62 optimal +10 falloff (numbers off the top of my head so might be off a bit). without TE's or TCs

with that kinda range you dont even need a t2 tank (i didnt) as long as you know the mission. I hope you know about eve survival.

Theres also a channel in game called helpmymission where u can ask for help with ur missions. Might be helpful for you until u get to grips with doing level 4's solo.

Still the best advise as others have already said is to stick to BC's until u have ur BS skills up so u can do the missions comfortably.

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-09-11 16:23:08 UTC
Overlord Starforger wrote:
My main complaint with Amarr ships is that once the frigates are under your guns, you cant hit em and also the non switchable damage types.


Drones. Big smile

Seriously, the Harb can carry a full flight of light drones and some replacements. It;s not a drone boat by any means, but there's enough drone bay for enough drones to take care of any of those pesky frigates.
Overlord Starforger
Temporis Industries
#19 - 2013-09-11 18:14:38 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Overlord Starforger wrote:
My main complaint with Amarr ships is that once the frigates are under your guns, you cant hit em and also the non switchable damage types.


Drones. Big smile

Seriously, the Harb can carry a full flight of light drones and some replacements. It;s not a drone boat by any means, but there's enough drone bay for enough drones to take care of any of those pesky frigates.


Yeah, I know, I know.....

But hitting them in the face with a volley of missiles is sooo satisfying P
Neithra Drakon
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-09-11 19:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Neithra Drakon
I understand how massively appetizing the Raven can look, with its spiked "I Will Ram This Hull Into Your Soft Body Parts" look. I can understand that the Drake looks like a floating armor plate in comparison. But do not lvl3 in a Raven, or any BS for that matter. Use your Drake, grind that standing and supports skills up and only then commit to a BS for lvl4s.

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks, 'Where's my share?' A man creates, a parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?' A man invents, a parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God...'  -AR

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