Market Discussions

Now I know it might be the work of trolls or goons, however I have found a few threads here and there talking about the Economy in EvE about inflation and how it is the work of plex's and mission running that has increased all the prices in the market. I always believed that the players of EvE learned about economy as the game went on but every post I read made me more sad and angry. So if it was the work of a troll, my friend you have succeeded.

My first point I want to make and most important one IMO is the importance of mission runners and rat bounties. Missions and Ratting is the only way ISK is generated in EvE. Now some of you might go "rabble rabble you can do plex's, sell loot, market orders, hooblah and hoodnani" however, those methods do not "generate" ISK they merely transfer it from one account to another. Mission runners and ratters are the "tourist" of EvE. They bring in the extra ISK to add to the market for further trade. So a cry for "nerf missions because they inflated the market" is false.

This brings me to my second point. The true reason why the prices are so high are because of 4 things. 1) Hulkageddon. This even which is beautiful part of the game mechanics at work. So before the flames I'm not crying about Hulkageddon. They created an event that is completely legal within the game mechanics so awesome work guys. This event pushed up the prices of Hulks up from 60m-80m to 190m-220m which also created a fear of flying said ships in highsec for fear of losing a now 200m ship, and because of this event the flood of Tritanium into the market was lowered. 2) Drones didn't drop loot that could be reprocessed into ORE which again caused another shortage. Next 2 were done by CCP. Loot dropped in missions was reduced greatly, and also CCP made the manufacturing of T1 ships easier by removing some of the high end ORES needed and make it more expensive increasing the lower end ammounts. With all of this put together we get the high prices for everything in the market.

Thrid Point is that plex's do not hurt the economy. When plexs are exchanged for ISK they are exchanged from player to player. Again no ISK is generated only exchanged.

The one thing that controls the EvE market economy is the ORE Tritanium. Its importance is so high that it could be used as currency. The points I mentioned above are why the market prices are so high. Not because of mission runners or plexs or whatever. It started with Hulkageddon and ended with CCP.

I want to also make a strong point how hard this is on new players to the game. What you would spend on a normal T1 battleship fit is now about the same price for a T1 battlecruiser fit. Market prices hurts new players who can't gather enough of their own ISK.

Well I'm off to bed. I might make another post on the some idea changes for Missions, Mining, and manufacturing that might help creating more ISK sinks for the laster and more ISK for the Missions.

Hell, bring back gun mining. CCP Soundwave is leaving, so lets forget about this "hate gun mining with a passion" stuff and bring it back. It was a lame move to remove it.

My first point is that I believe that this belongs to the Market Discussions subsection of the forum.

Second: I wouldn't agree that prices are high. But since this statement only makes sense in some sort of comparison (as in high compared to what it used to be 2 years ago) I won’t argue against your opinion (perhaps until you give such a comparison).

Furthermore you seem to ignore the rebalancing of mining barges (including added mineral requirements to build them). You also ignore the rebalancing of other ships, the market speculation that came with rebalancing, pre-building massive amounts of ships etc. Take the Armageddon for example and compare the cost to build it with the current market prices. You also ignore the effect of building super capitals and other things.

I also very much disagree with your opinion that current (or past) prices make it hard(er) for new players (and I was a new player myself not so long ago). Without a doubt there are things that could be done to make it easier for new players. But the few ideas you hinted at are most certainly not suited to this task.

The prices have been the same for about a year and half if not 2 years. This is true. When EvE first came out battleships were insanely expensive, reason being at that time Lv4 missions gave around 200m to 500m so the prices were reflective of that. Then lv4 mission rewards and rat bounties were significantly reduced. and within time prices dropped to what they were for YEARS.

You asked for a comparison? Megathron used to be on a good sale 70m, normally around 90m. Now it is 150m roughly, when about a month or so ago or 2 months ago it was 200m. It wasn't the "balance". I also stated in the first post that the quantity of Tritanium required for increased greatly. Also stated that the flood of reprocessed minerals from mission loot and drone loot was removed. I stated a ton of actual facts that happened within the game.

Plex's raise and lower in price due to supply and demand. The demand for plexs is getting higher as more and more players are sustaining their accounts with plexs. However plex's do not generate ISK in the game so it does not cause any inflation or deflation. Think of mission runners and ratters as tourists. Certain cities and countries rely on tourists to bring money in from the outside so that they can circulate and stimulate more money within the economy. If the cities or countries just print money and flood it into the economy then that would cause an inflation. Mission runners and ratters add ISK to EvE. Now I am getting sleepy though and I will read up everything everyone has wrote and reply as best as I can. I will also try to evaluate on my points.

*sigh* Yes my original point in the beginning was to say that mission runners and ratters are not the cause for the inflation/deflation of EvE that so many people have suggested. I am stating a point that players who suggest a nerf to mission rewards and rat bounty's are falsely informed by how these 2 things affect the market and ISK value of the game.

(I am in the "Do not nerf missions and bounties from rats") group if that helps at all.)

No it didn't.

Source: CSM Winter 2012 Summit minutes

3 years only and their price was so irregular you could find 60M hulks 6 jumps out of a trade hub and 90M in a known trade hub or inversely, was a bit "weird" indeed.

At that time Domi hull cost was about 37/42M Megas 60/70M hyperions around 100M already. So many changes since then, specially the growing number of speculators has grown exponentially and artificially raised prices of finished products but raw materials kept low.

If something to justify current ships/modules prices tritanium should be around 10isk unit, not 4.5, but then someone will come tell me something about offer/demand forgetting the main argument of this false economy like easy for little to no cost market manipulation, manipulation of demand etc.

So your argument is:
1) goons increased Hulk demand increasing their price (fyi demand changes are not inflation, also has nothing to do with mission running or plexes)
2) CCP reduced mineral supply shifting the supply curve and reducing "stuff" in game (maybe ok)
3) Plexes do nothing to the economy (actually they are deflationary because of taxes, etc)

Anyway, none of these things really address your point which is that mission running and plexes are not to blame for inflation, so let me help you.

Here is how they each effect inflation: Mission running contributes to inflation by generating currency, plexes do the opposite by eliminating currency (via taxes, etc.)

Here we go again ...

Price inflation or deflation are terms that mean something specific. They mean changes in prices due to changes in the supply of money. That's it.

Prices of hulks going up because goons blew up a bunch of hulks is not the result of a change in the supply of money.

Prices going up because CCP changed the build requirements of ships with "Extra Materials" is not a result of a change in the supply of money.

Prices going up because CCP stopped drone gun mining is not a result of a change in the supply of money.

Prices going down because CCP added more moon minerals is not the result of a change in the money supply.

Prices going down because CCP added the noctis to the game is not the result of a change in the money supply.

Is there monetary inflation in Eve? Yes, it's huge. Is there price inflation in Eve? Yes but it is moderate. What accounts for the difference? ...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3586844#post3586844

Are there signs of inflation? Yep, but you have to first eliminate changes CCP has made, changes players have made, changes in player preferences.

Here are some simple examples and I'll let you figure them out,

Could the price of PLEX as it is now be the same if the money supply were the same as it was when PLEX were introduced?

Could the price of tech gotten as high as it did if the money supply were the same as it was in 2004?

Would the volatility of markets during patch changes be as drastic if the money supply were the same as it was in 2004?