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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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The Future of T3 Cruisers

Author
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#21 - 2013-09-11 01:21:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
How about just no. By the time we get through rebalancing everything else, T3s won't seem so under-balanced anymore...


^This is the only way that would make any sense. T3's are expensive by nature of their construction requirements, as well as demand. The T2 cruisers certainly have their niche advantages, but they are generally lackluster IMO.

When I have to-
1. salvage sleeper components
2. build a POS with a special lab
3. reverse engineer said components
4. train all skills for above

to build something, it had better be awesome.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#22 - 2013-09-11 01:31:26 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
to build something, it had better be awesome.


Don't forget losing 4 days of skills every time you die (or eject).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#23 - 2013-09-11 03:11:18 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
I don't really see the problem with the pricing ..

Buzzard 17.8m
Cerberus 226.9m
Falcon 149.5m
Basilisk 116.4m
Nighthawk 208.9m

Total Cost 719.5m

The average Tengu costs around 440m for a commonplace standard loadout of subsystems

It only seems excessive at the moment as you pretty much lock it into 1 role with rigs
If rigs were not on issue, then you have effectively 5 ships in 1 for almost half the price.



Arya Regnar wrote:
T3 are perfectly fine as they are right now.

if by fine you actually mean "I fly T3's because they're OP!!!. CCP plz don't nerf my T3" ... then yes your right

fyi, I can fly a Cerberus and a Tengu
I find there is little reason to move the Cerberus out of the hanger.


You fly a 440m tengu? What's the point?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#24 - 2013-09-11 04:00:01 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
You fly a 440m tengu? What's the point?


They look cool.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#25 - 2013-09-11 05:25:03 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
You fly a 440m tengu? What's the point?


They look cool.


Haha, at least you didn't say that about the Legion.
Karma Codolle
Chimera Research and Development
#26 - 2013-09-11 07:03:35 UTC
This doesn't make any sense

You currently want ship progression to be Tech1 -> Tech3 -> Tech2

Why would tech 3 which is supposed to be highly advanced be worse than a simple tech 2?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#27 - 2013-09-11 09:29:57 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
You fly a 440m tengu? What's the point?


They look cool.


Haha, at least you didn't say that about the Legion.


The Legion also looks cool. ;)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-09-11 10:02:26 UTC
Karma Codolle wrote:
This doesn't make any sense

You currently want ship progression to be Tech1 -> Tech3 -> Tech2

Why would tech 3 which is supposed to be highly advanced be worse than a simple tech 2?



Because frustrated loud mouths with little brains said so.
And it will work like it worked on Gallente nerf to oblivion for almost 5 years, their logs showed nothing despite hundreds of pages and literally thousands of posts from players claiming how bad and nerf those ships were.
The answer was "our logs and graphics clearly show they're good, just look at", indeed we all know how good they were but never mind, they're supposed to be the ones knowing something about what they do right? -Eve history shows it's not always the case.

Yep, player feedback and stuff etc.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#29 - 2013-09-11 10:11:57 UTC
Please Remove all Rig Slots for T3 Cruiser and give them another Submodule instead, rigs really cripling the possibilitys which are the Reason for a T3 in the first place.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-09-11 10:18:00 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
The Role of a T3 Cruiser
CCP's original intent was for it to be versatile, able to assume to many different roles but specialising in none.
Currently the T3 cruiser fails in that role.


And Gnosis is awesome at it? :)

I disagree that T3 cruisers fail at it. For instance, I can fly a nullified, covert Tengu explorer through null looking for sigs. When I find a combat site, I can park in an NPC station, swap modules and proceed to do the site without the need for a second combat ship. The only problem is, I can only do this swap in friendly or neutral territory. In my opinion, there should be a way to swap modules in a hostile territory as well, at least to some extent.

Beyond that, T3 hulls are perfectly fine. In fact, they may be the most balanced thing in game. The problem is solely with subsystems. Take for instance the Tengu. I think we all agree that the Ejection Bay is absolutely amazing. But when was the last time you saw a Tengu with Magnetic Infusion Basin? Those are the ones that need balancing and fixing before we start inventing the wheel.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#31 - 2013-09-11 10:30:31 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
The Role of a T3 Cruiser
CCP's original intent was for it to be versatile, able to assume to many different roles but specialising in none.
Currently the T3 cruiser fails in that role.


And Gnosis is awesome at it? :)

I disagree that T3 cruisers fail at it. For instance, I can fly a nullified, covert Tengu explorer through null looking for sigs. When I find a combat site, I can park in an NPC station, swap modules and proceed to do the site without the need for a second combat ship. The only problem is, I can only do this swap in friendly or neutral territory. In my opinion, there should be a way to swap modules in a hostile territory as well, at least to some extent.

Beyond that, T3 hulls are perfectly fine. In fact, they may be the most balanced thing in game. The problem is solely with subsystems. Take for instance the Tengu. I think we all agree that the Ejection Bay is absolutely amazing. But when was the last time you saw a Tengu with Magnetic Infusion Basin? Those are the ones that need balancing and fixing before we start inventing the wheel.


At Gnosis: Apple and Oranges.

But your right the Nullifier is a Prime Example for Advanced Technique without OP Combat Abilitys.

It gives so immunity for Bubbles but costs a slot and some speed in comparison to other Submodule, thats truly a Tech 3 Feature.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-11 10:35:50 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
The Role of a T3 Cruiser
CCP's original intent was for it to be versatile, able to assume to many different roles but specialising in none.
Currently the T3 cruiser fails in that role.


And Gnosis is awesome at it? :)

I disagree that T3 cruisers fail at it. For instance, I can fly a nullified, covert Tengu explorer through null looking for sigs. When I find a combat site, I can park in an NPC station, swap modules and proceed to do the site without the need for a second combat ship. The only problem is, I can only do this swap in friendly or neutral territory. In my opinion, there should be a way to swap modules in a hostile territory as well, at least to some extent.

Beyond that, T3 hulls are perfectly fine. In fact, they may be the most balanced thing in game. The problem is solely with subsystems. Take for instance the Tengu. I think we all agree that the Ejection Bay is absolutely amazing. But when was the last time you saw a Tengu with Magnetic Infusion Basin? Those are the ones that need balancing and fixing before we start inventing the wheel.


At Gnosis: Apple and Oranges.

But your right the Nullifier is a Prime Example for Advanced Technique without OP Combat Abilitys.

It gives so immunity for Bubbles but costs a slot and some speed in comparison to other Submodule, thats truly a Tech 3 Feature.


All of the subs add or remove slots.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#33 - 2013-09-11 11:36:09 UTC
No **** Sherlock!

Try to compare Nulifier Sub with Afterburner Sub and then come back and Share your thoughts again.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-11 11:37:36 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
No **** Sherlock!

Try to compare Nulifier Sub with Afterburner Sub and then come back and Share your thoughts again.



No **** sherlock one is a COMBAT sub.

durp
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#35 - 2013-09-11 12:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
Anyway, nullifying bubbles, is one of the Major Features of a T3 Cruiser but you lost some speed and a low Slot aswell, which defines the meaning of this Ship Class pretty well and CCP should build on this Idea if they want to completly rebalance this Ship class.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#36 - 2013-09-11 12:18:07 UTC
Reading this thread reminded me of something I learned in EVE a few months ago...







**implied facepalm**






I agree with the guy who said it is good that CCP doesn't let players balance the ships. I have to wonder if some of the posters in this thread even read what they put down.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-09-11 12:19:33 UTC
Onomerous wrote:


I agree with the guy who said it is good that CCP doesn't let players balance the ships. I have to wonder if some of the posters in this thread even read what they put down.



Of course looking at the maurader thread.......
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#38 - 2013-09-11 14:22:45 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
T3's aren't OP when you consider the value of them.

So what you're saying is that price should be considered as a balancing factor? No, it shouldn't. Some pilots can barely afford T1 cruisers while others buy and sell super-capitals on a daily basis. Price should never be a balancing point because the distribution of wealth in Eve is itself unbalanced.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#39 - 2013-09-11 15:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
T3's aren't OP when you consider the value of them.

So what you're saying is that price should be considered as a balancing factor? No, it shouldn't. Some pilots can barely afford T1 cruisers while others buy and sell super-capitals on a daily basis. Price should never be a balancing point because the distribution of wealth in Eve is itself unbalanced.


Any other ships cost SP when you die in one?
Didn't think so... I'd say that's fairly balanced.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#40 - 2013-09-11 15:45:50 UTC
There's really only one change you need to make to Strategic Cruisers:

• Eliminate rigs and calibration

Yes, I'll miss the occasional engineering rig as well - but it wouldn't fundamentally change the class (other than making it less OP on the extreme end of things). The ability to carry and swap-out subsystems and components is already extremely advantageous, despite the associated costs. And you can still do goofy things like run 100MN afterburners - it just makes it less feasible and more of a sacrifice since you'll be using those lows for reactor controls, power diagnostics or capacitor power relays.

As has been previously mentioned, some of the offensive subsystems do need some buffing, such as the Magnetic Infusion Basin (+5% rate of fire per) and Rifling Launcher Pattern (+5% kinetic damage per) on the Tengu.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.