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Competitive Gaming

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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#41 - 2013-09-11 11:10:04 UTC
Roime wrote:
Competitive gamers are already out there, shooting each others in the face


competitive gamers want to compete, not grind for hours to compete for 30 seconds

what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole

a developed universe would create leagues like we created leagues in sports, in order for competition to happen and training

war is no competition, its war... however people want to compete in order to get better to win the war if it happens

the only gamemode now is war, competition is missing

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#42 - 2013-09-11 11:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

this is for competitive gamers, not just some douchebags who want to destroy other gamers fun


You there! Get out! You don't get this game it is not for you!





you don't get gaming, thats how it feels

we got leagues in real life, thats why we need it in EvE as well

leagues are there to train for the real fight

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2013-09-11 11:14:16 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Competitive gamers are already out there, shooting each others in the face


competitive gamers want to compete, not grind for hours to compete for 30 seconds

what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole

a developed universe would create leagues like we created leagues in sports, in order for competition to happen and training

war is no competition, its war... however people want to compete in order to get better to win the war if it happens

the only gamemode now is war, competition is missing


You don't have to grind for hours, you don't have to grind at all.

Yeah, EVE resembles RL in a way, which makes it so awesome. There is no hole as what comes to combat, it comes in all shapes and forms in New Eden and is accessible to anyone who wants it.

People don't compete with tanks and carriers in RL.

You can compete in warfare in this game.

.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#44 - 2013-09-11 11:15:00 UTC
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
a game in the game


This is exactly why it's a stupid, redundant and boring idea.



can not be more stupid to shoot those mission rats each day

leagues are good training grounds for the real fights

it would stimulate war and make the real fights better as well

its a perfect idea, and perfect for this game

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#45 - 2013-09-11 11:15:08 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
[quote=Roime]
what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole


Creating a game in the game typically creates a balancing nightmare (see: wow "Nerfs to pvp/pve balance because of pve/pvp performance of classes"-discussion). If the demand for such an alternative game mode was sufficient, it would be better to just stick it into a separate game. Larger companies have failed trying to balance vastly different gaming modes in the same game.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#46 - 2013-09-11 11:16:43 UTC
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Competitive gamers are already out there, shooting each others in the face


competitive gamers want to compete, not grind for hours to compete for 30 seconds

what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole

a developed universe would create leagues like we created leagues in sports, in order for competition to happen and training

war is no competition, its war... however people want to compete in order to get better to win the war if it happens

the only gamemode now is war, competition is missing


You don't have to grind for hours, you don't have to grind at all.

Yeah, EVE resembles RL in a way, which makes it so awesome. There is no hole as what comes to combat, it comes in all shapes and forms in New Eden and is accessible to anyone who wants it.

People don't compete with tanks and carriers in RL.

You can compete in warfare in this game.



sure they compete with tanks in real life, they have their simulators, there they train for it

that training ground is missing, as eve is close to RL, people in the universe would build leagues as well for training purposes

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#47 - 2013-09-11 11:18:11 UTC
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
[quote=Roime]
what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole


Creating a game in the game typically creates a balancing nightmare (see: wow "Nerfs to pvp/pve balance because of pve/pvp performance of classes"-discussion). If the demand for such an alternative game mode was sufficient, it would be better to just stick it into a separate game. Larger companies have failed trying to balance vastly different gaming modes in the same game.


real life did also implement leagues, those severe the society in farious form

nothing more needs to be done in eve, it could be a stimulus for the universe

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#48 - 2013-09-11 11:19:14 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
a game in the game


This is exactly why it's a stupid, redundant and boring idea.



can not be more stupid to shoot those mission rats each day

leagues are good training grounds for the real fights

it would stimulate war and make the real fights better as well

its a perfect idea, and perfect for this game


Why shoot mission rats then? People who run missions do it because they enjoy it, the players who focus on pvp avoid wasting time for such activities.

No, as you suggested the arenas don't simulate war. Combat in an open world MMO is not controlled, it happens in an unpredictable environment in rapidly changing situations that can be manipulated to give you an advantage. Artificial restrictions remove this aspect.

.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#49 - 2013-09-11 11:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Harry Forever wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Arenas won't work, because in Eve there is no instances or space that others cannot enter, thus anybody could warp in to interfere with the people in the arena. If arenas are ever implemented I can see a huge tear faucet being created, probably with smartbombs or roving destroyer fleets.


you could not enter arenas, its locked out space, your foolish gameplay won't work there... it should be programmed that way

this is for competitive gamers, not just some douchebags who want to destroy other gamers fun

You just broke Eve. You can't just lock out areas of space in Eve, the game doesn't support it, nor should it. AT is held in Dev space which is the exception, as it's permanently locked to players.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#50 - 2013-09-11 11:21:47 UTC
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
a game in the game


This is exactly why it's a stupid, redundant and boring idea.



can not be more stupid to shoot those mission rats each day

leagues are good training grounds for the real fights

it would stimulate war and make the real fights better as well

its a perfect idea, and perfect for this game


Why shoot mission rats then? People who run missions do it because they enjoy it, the players who focus on pvp avoid wasting time for such activities.

No, as you suggested the arenas don't simulate war. Combat in an open world MMO is not controlled, it happens in an unpredictable environment in rapidly changing situations that can be manipulated to give you an advantage. Artificial restrictions remove this aspect.


the real fights would not change, the only thing that would change is that people get better prepared for the real fights because they can train in those areans vs. real people

and again, Sisi does not fill that purpose because you need a gamemode where you are thrown together with others, no need to search for people who go in there, only a league serves this purpose well

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#51 - 2013-09-11 11:23:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Arenas won't work, because in Eve there is no instances or space that others cannot enter, thus anybody could warp in to interfere with the people in the arena. If arenas are ever implemented I can see a huge tear faucet being created, probably with smartbombs or roving destroyer fleets.


you could not enter arenas, its locked out space, your foolish gameplay won't work there... it should be programmed that way

this is for competitive gamers, not just some douchebags who want to destroy other gamers fun

You just broke Eve. You can't just lock out areas of space in Eve, the game doesn't support it, nor should it.


again this will be programmed that way, you are also locked out from a football game in real world, it needs to be setup like that, to assure competition can not be interrupted by maniacs

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#52 - 2013-09-11 11:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: l0rd carlos
An arena which is completely isolated from the rest of the universe goes against what Eve stands for.

Edit: What is next? You can't shoot blues/fleetmates?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#53 - 2013-09-11 11:27:16 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

again this will be programmed that way, you are also locked out from a football game in real world, it needs to be setup like that, to assure competition can not be interrupted by maniacs

So it's ok for you to suggest ruining our gameplay, so that we can't interfere in yours?

Lets face it, like every other suggestion you've made in your short time playing Eve, it's ill thought out, will only attract the people that change games every few months because FoTM, you have no idea about what is required to implement it, and you genuinely don't give a toss if it breaks Eve for everybody else.

People like yourself are why so many games are utter tripe and die shortly after release.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2013-09-11 11:28:11 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

sure they compete with tanks in real life, they have their simulators, there they train for it

that training ground is missing, as eve is close to RL, people in the universe would build leagues as well for training purposes


Those carrier competitions sure are popular

Training in EVE:

1. tutorials
2. fighting rats
3. player corps for new players (various PVP academies, EVE Uni, Brave Newbies)
4. just doing it

There are two excellent ways to get all the PVP in affordable ships one can possibly need, RvB and FW. RvB is more limited in scope, while FW offers endless opportunities for near-instant solo PVP in T1 frigs, but also the open world of lowsec and fleet scope.

You can really choose your path in this game and seek out the kind of action you want. Fancy small-medium gang PVP with pimped out ships and capitals? Join a C5/6 wh corp. Dreaming of massive fleet engagements? Join a sov null alliance. Looking for high end small gang PVP with varied fleet comps? Join a Syndicate combat entity. Or an established lowsec pirate corp. Prefer solo? Pick any area you prefer and just ******* do it.

I really think you lack the attitude and passion for combat, and refuse to make the minimal effort to find fights.

.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#55 - 2013-09-11 11:30:02 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
[quote=Roime]
what happens in the game is more like RL vs. gaming... therefore a game in the game needs to be created to fill that hole


Creating a game in the game typically creates a balancing nightmare (see: wow "Nerfs to pvp/pve balance because of pve/pvp performance of classes"-discussion). If the demand for such an alternative game mode was sufficient, it would be better to just stick it into a separate game. Larger companies have failed trying to balance vastly different gaming modes in the same game.


real life did also implement leagues, those severe the society in farious form

nothing more needs to be done in eve, it could be a stimulus for the universe


You'll notice that the typical occupations performed in real life leagues tend to be strongly regulated (or balanced) to create a fair environment notably absent from real life conflicts. At the same time, typical RL conflict situations are notoriously unfair and difficult to regulate; there is just no sportsmanlike version of "let's cluster bomb those suckers from 2000 miles away".

In the same way that real life conflicts are extremely difficult to be condensed into a fair league format (as evidenced by the complexity of your typical tabletop wargame), mechanisms which are balanced in large scale warfare (e.g. strength of remote rep, ECM, mass deployment of drones) are likely to be gamebreaking when scaled down into a limited format. In order for that format to be fair, significant rebalancing would be needed, which would in turn require shifting resources away from the main game.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-09-11 11:32:50 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
we need universe wide leagues and arenas to assure we can put our best ships to use in some competitive gaming environment

seeing those best ships going down each day on the killboard, ganked by some kids who are just jealous because they don't have the same tech is rediculous

people are grinding for ages just to loose their ships within seconds? there is no point for that except the gleeful

all ships in the hangar should be usable in those arenas as often as you want

you still should be able to loos the ship in some SoV PvP or ganking action, however it would be way different when you have been able to get some real fights with it before that

at the moment PvP is just searching for the weak and easy target, nobody takes up real challanges 30 vs. 1, 5 year old players vs. 3 month old newbs, its all about punching down the weak and not about taking risk and challanges

arenas and leagues would change it all and bring the competitive gaming crowd to the game



The day Eve aloud this, it will be no more Eve but a poor minded developed shadow of the fantastic game Eve is, a poor cheapo badly thought product, a scam for "I want it all and I want it now" nerds.

If something I believe in Eve is that choices don't have huge enough consequences and as you've been told already several times, bigger doesn't necessary means better, older doesn't necessary means experienced, skills doesn't necessary means you win.

If you're not ready to loose whatever you have and start again you don't get Eve
If you think because you have more skills than a noob you shouldn't loose the fight you don't get Eve
If you think because you have a "better ship" you shouldn't loose the fight, you definitively don't get Eve and should do yourself a favor: move on to another game providing you the enjoyment you're looking for, because right now not only you seem to not have fun at all but you bother us with your permanent complains and bad critics based on false judgements for something you don't understand.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-09-11 11:40:38 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

this is for competitive gamers, not just some douchebags who want to destroy other gamers fun


You there! Get out! You don't get this game it is not for you!





you don't get gaming, thats how it feels

we got leagues in real life, thats why we need it in EvE as well

leagues are there to train for the real fight



Make your league on your own, undock with cheapo throwaway T1 frigates and get on the top belt in Rancer or Old Man Star.
You have plenty of competition but you are afraid of taking it because you don't want to loose your tràlàlà

Flash news: whenever you're going to loose your tràlàlà you're going to have an emotional chock due to the attachment you put in instead of having fun playing the game with in its rules, not those you want it to make specially for you because you feel you're a special snowflake.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#58 - 2013-09-11 11:42:05 UTC
I guess most people just don't understand why leagues have been implemented in real world, thats why they don't understand the need for it in EvE... however it would just fill the same purpose, training

in the real world we do the same thing to get better, with sports, in history it has bee fights in arenas... at the end it filled the training need to get better, better for the real fight

if EvE does not need it, then just because EvEs inhabitants are not there yet to see the need for it... animals don't have arenas for training either, thats right

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#59 - 2013-09-11 11:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Harry
I've found you a spaceship based game that supports arenas and professes to be an MMO, http://en.darkorbit.bigpoint.com/, I suggest you try it instead of trying to kill the game we play.

We don't see the need for arenas, because the majority of players are not interested in arenas.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-09-11 11:44:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tron 3K
Harry Forever wrote:
we need universe wide leagues and arenas to assure we can put our best ships to use in some competitive gaming environment

seeing those best ships going down each day on the killboard, ganked by some kids who are just jealous because they don't have the same tech is rediculous

people are grinding for ages just to loose their ships within seconds? there is no point for that except the gleeful

all ships in the hangar should be usable in those arenas as often as you want

you still should be able to loos the ship in some SoV PvP or ganking action, however it would be way different when you have been able to get some real fights with it before that

at the moment PvP is just searching for the weak and easy target, nobody takes up real challanges 30 vs. 1, 5 year old players vs. 3 month old newbs, its all about punching down the weak and not about taking risk and challanges

arenas and leagues would change it all and bring the competitive gaming crowd to the game


Yo idiot its called the test server go do your leagues there.. Duh...