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New Ship Idea. Battleship Class Carrier
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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-09-11 07:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Ele Rebellion wrote:
All the talk about the Bastion Mode for Marauders had me thinking. What about giving us a T2 Battleship that serves as a Sub-Capital Carrier. (In other words: A T2 Battleship that has bonuses to drone bay, bandwidth, max number of drones in space and hitpoints/damage.. maybe even remote reps/cap)

I know I've read somewhere that a CCP dev said they don't like to design ships to have a single purpose. So this goes along with that. They could be set up for Drone DPS or Triage (like carriers) which gives them PvE and PvP uses as well as bridges the Logi Gap between T2 Logistical Cruisers and full blown Capital Carriers. (althought I know some people don't feel that such a thing exists)

The set-ups could allow for (at max skills) up to 10 Large (25 Mbit/sec) drones (no fighters) and up to 5 modules that allow for control of one additional drone each.. or just the 10 Large drones with remote assistance module bonuses.

Personally I think its a great idea. Will have great PvE and PvP uses. Might even help to encourage pilots to move from High Sec out into Low/Null to use actual Carriers. Might also encourage more Low/Null Small gang PvP.


Four things.
1) this is like the 19th time I've heard this idea
2) two you don't even use fighters on a suicide...I mean triage carrier unless you like spending hours scanning down warping to and scooping them, you lose all drone control in triage.
3) sentries are better for 99% of like all applications, and you can buy a LOT of drones for the 230ish mil you can expect to spend on a full set of fighters
4) because CCP is being ******** and not using tactical reconfiguration you would be no closer than any other bs pilot, it's the nav skills that take forever, fighters are quick in comparison.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#82 - 2013-09-11 07:48:38 UTC
Onictus. I never suggested fighters. Also I have changed a large portion of my suggestion. A lot has been due to the OP factor.

Currently I am suggesting a T2 Battleship (though with Marauder resist as opposed to Cruiser/Frigate T2 Resist.. specs are at end of Page 3) The drone limit would be 5, but would have a role bonus to allow the use of Drone Control Units (will need bonus to fitting) which would use up most of the high slots. Thus preventing it from being a 1,000+ dps logi. More like a 700dps logi or 1,100dps drone boat.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-09-11 07:56:13 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Onictus. I never suggested fighters. Also I have changed a large portion of my suggestion. A lot has been due to the OP factor.

Currently I am suggesting a T2 Battleship (though with Marauder resist as opposed to Cruiser/Frigate T2 Resist.. specs are at end of Page 3) The drone limit would be 5, but would have a role bonus to allow the use of Drone Control Units (will need bonus to fitting) which would use up most of the high slots. Thus preventing it from being a 1,000+ dps logi. More like a 700dps logi or 1,100dps drone boat.


So what stops me from loading it with senrties? DCUs work for all drones.

You understand with any sort of hull bonus you are doing better than fighter dps, since DDAs work for all drone except fighter/fighter-bomber.

And I don't even have to wait 5 minutes for a fighter to get anywhere.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#84 - 2013-09-11 08:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ele Rebellion
Onictus wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Onictus. I never suggested fighters. Also I have changed a large portion of my suggestion. A lot has been due to the OP factor.

Currently I am suggesting a T2 Battleship (though with Marauder resist as opposed to Cruiser/Frigate T2 Resist.. specs are at end of Page 3) The drone limit would be 5, but would have a role bonus to allow the use of Drone Control Units (will need bonus to fitting) which would use up most of the high slots. Thus preventing it from being a 1,000+ dps logi. More like a 700dps logi or 1,100dps drone boat.


So what stops me from loading it with senrties? DCUs work for all drones.

You understand with any sort of hull bonus you are doing better than fighter dps, since DDAs work for all drone except fighter/fighter-bomber.

And I don't even have to wait 5 minutes for a fighter to get anywhere.


Less DPS than a 10 fighter Thanatos. As I just stated a couple post earlier. 10 Ogre2s with 2 DDA2s and a 3.5% damage per level hull bonus tops at 1099dps.. on current suggestions that would be a setup that would be using 5 DCUs. Simply put this ship for logi would have half, if not less, the dps of a carrier, or set up for dps would have at best 2/3 the dps of a similarly fitted carrier.

According to EFT... A Thanatos with NO MODULES, just 10 Firbolgs has 1250dps... with 5 DCUs it has 1875.. Though instead of fighters it can also use the same drones, and the same DDA2s.

Edit: 15 Garde2s with 2 DDA2s shows 1328dps... I can do the math for 10 with 3.5% per level and 2 DDA2s, but its gonna be less. (10 Garde2s = 886 with 2 DDA2s and no hull bonus)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-09-11 08:30:37 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Onictus. I never suggested fighters. Also I have changed a large portion of my suggestion. A lot has been due to the OP factor.

Currently I am suggesting a T2 Battleship (though with Marauder resist as opposed to Cruiser/Frigate T2 Resist.. specs are at end of Page 3) The drone limit would be 5, but would have a role bonus to allow the use of Drone Control Units (will need bonus to fitting) which would use up most of the high slots. Thus preventing it from being a 1,000+ dps logi. More like a 700dps logi or 1,100dps drone boat.


So what stops me from loading it with senrties? DCUs work for all drones.

You understand with any sort of hull bonus you are doing better than fighter dps, since DDAs work for all drone except fighter/fighter-bomber.

And I don't even have to wait 5 minutes for a fighter to get anywhere.


Less DPS than a 10 fighter Thanatos. As I just stated a couple post earlier. 10 Ogre2s with 2 DDA2s and a 3.5% damage per level hull bonus tops at 1099dps.. on current suggestions that would be a setup that would be using 5 DCUs. Simply put this ship for logi would have half, if not less, the dps of a carrier, or set up for dps would have at best 2/3 the dps of a similarly fitted carrier.

According to EFT... A Thanatos with NO MODULES, just 10 Firbolgs has 1250dps... with 5 DCUs it has 1875.. Though instead of fighters it can also use the same drones, and the same DDA2s.

Edit: 15 Garde2s with 2 DDA2s shows 1328dps... I can do the math for 10 with 3.5% per level and 2 DDA2s, but its gonna be less. (10 Garde2s = 886 with 2 DDA2s and no hull bonus)


You arent talking enough dda three if not four.

....and there are no mods to improve dps for fighters, only is application (painters).

I a Domi our two with 800 dps, or are you going to make drone hauler with no damage bonus
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#86 - 2013-09-11 08:43:17 UTC
3 or 4 DDAs.. would be pretty much suicide on an armor tank especially if only given 6 lows for armor tanks.. and as for shield tanks.. take away their hull bonus and give them 2 less low slots... I chose to use 2 since that would probably be about the norm.

Either way.. Yes more DDAs could be applied.. but can't more DDAs be applied to a carrier?

Just EFT'd a Thanatos with 15 Ogre2s and 6 DDA2s. 1,743dps. (still less than fighters, and way squishier)

Your argument makes it sound as though you are saying that Carriers need a Fighter Damage mod. If that is the case then start a thread and suggest it. As far as what you are posting in this thread I see no way that similar fits between the suggested hull and a carrier would compare in DPS..
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-09-11 09:04:20 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
3 or 4 DDAs.. would be pretty much suicide on an armor tank especially if only given 6 lows for armor tanks.. and as for shield tanks.. take away their hull bonus and give them 2 less low slots... I chose to use 2 since that would probably be about the norm.

Either way.. Yes more DDAs could be applied.. but can't more DDAs be applied to a carrier?

Just EFT'd a Thanatos with 15 Ogre2s and 6 DDA2s. 1,743dps. (still less than fighters, and way squishier)

Your argument makes it sound as though you are saying that Carriers need a Fighter Damage mod. If that is the case then start a thread and suggest it. As far as what you are posting in this thread I see no way that similar fits between the suggested hull and a carrier would compare in DPS..


Oddly I rat with a 3 DDA domi, it's not even hard, ship is good for 24 mil bounty ticks.

Then a 5 DCU carrier is ......brave.......I wouldn't undock with all dcu high slots.

....and again, fighter don't apply full damage to anything they have to get there first.....and they go slow, like real slow, I can out run them with a number of battle ships slow.

Basically CCP didn't appear to have a clue with the battleships we have. We don't need a 1600dps super domi screwing with them more.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#88 - 2013-09-11 09:16:07 UTC
Uhm... No.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#89 - 2013-09-11 09:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ele Rebellion
Onictus wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
3 or 4 DDAs.. would be pretty much suicide on an armor tank especially if only given 6 lows for armor tanks.. and as for shield tanks.. take away their hull bonus and give them 2 less low slots... I chose to use 2 since that would probably be about the norm.

Either way.. Yes more DDAs could be applied.. but can't more DDAs be applied to a carrier?

Just EFT'd a Thanatos with 15 Ogre2s and 6 DDA2s. 1,743dps. (still less than fighters, and way squishier)

Your argument makes it sound as though you are saying that Carriers need a Fighter Damage mod. If that is the case then start a thread and suggest it. As far as what you are posting in this thread I see no way that similar fits between the suggested hull and a carrier would compare in DPS..


Oddly I rat with a 3 DDA domi, it's not even hard, ship is good for 24 mil bounty ticks.

Then a 5 DCU carrier is ......brave.......I wouldn't undock with all dcu high slots.

....and again, fighter don't apply full damage to anything they have to get there first.....and they go slow, like real slow, I can out run them with a number of battle ships slow.

Basically CCP didn't appear to have a clue with the battleships we have. We don't need a 1600dps super domi screwing with them more.


1600dps super domi... did you read anything I wrote? Domi has 10% bonus per level (not to mention hardpoints).. I NEVER suggested a 10% bonus. Only one I suggested was a 3.5% per level. Even then Marauders and Pirate Faction Battleships would still be capable of more DPS than a 5 DCU equipped suggested hull.

Yes they are slow.. but their not slower than a Dread in Siege, or a POS, another Carrier, Super Carrier (Mother ship), or a Titan.. all of which they apply DPS to well... (which is beside the point.. if you wanna complain about carriers then you're in the wrong place)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-09-11 09:25:19 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
3 or 4 DDAs.. would be pretty much suicide on an armor tank especially if only given 6 lows for armor tanks.. and as for shield tanks.. take away their hull bonus and give them 2 less low slots... I chose to use 2 since that would probably be about the norm.

Either way.. Yes more DDAs could be applied.. but can't more DDAs be applied to a carrier?

Just EFT'd a Thanatos with 15 Ogre2s and 6 DDA2s. 1,743dps. (still less than fighters, and way squishier)

Your argument makes it sound as though you are saying that Carriers need a Fighter Damage mod. If that is the case then start a thread and suggest it. As far as what you are posting in this thread I see no way that similar fits between the suggested hull and a carrier would compare in DPS..


Oddly I rat with a 3 DDA domi, it's not even hard, ship is good for 24 mil bounty ticks.

Then a 5 DCU carrier is ......brave.......I wouldn't undock with all dcu high slots.

....and again, fighter don't apply full damage to anything they have to get there first.....and they go slow, like real slow, I can out run them with a number of battle ships slow.

Basically CCP didn't appear to have a clue with the battleships we have. We don't need a 1600dps super domi screwing with them more.


1600dps super domi... did you read anything I wrote? Domi has 10% bonus per level (not to mention hardpoints).. I NEVER suggested a 10% bonus. Only one I suggested was a 3.5% per level. Even then Marauders and Pirate Faction Battleships would still be capable of more DPS than a 5 DCU equipped suggested hull.

Yes they are slow.. but their not slower than a Dread in Siege, or a POS, another Carrier, Super Carrier (Mother ship), or a Titan.. all of which they apply DPS to well...


So what happens when they are 70km away? And park a battleship with titans and dreads on the field, you'll get napped blapped.

Ps heavies can't shoot though a pos shield.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
Man I Love Flying Spaceships
#91 - 2013-09-11 09:49:20 UTC
Onictus wrote:


So what happens when they are 70km away? And park a battleship with titans and dreads on the field, you'll get napped blapped.

Ps heavies can't shoot though a pos shield.


??? My reference was to the use of fighters by carriers not taking on those ships with a battleship (and definitely not to the battleship use of fighters.. which I have stated several times that this suggested hull would NOT be able to use).. guessing you misunderstood what I said..?
Infiltrator2112
Untitled Goose Corporation
#92 - 2013-09-11 10:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Infiltrator2112
Ele Rebellion wrote:

@ Infiltrator2112 - I disagree. Carriers are still slightly more expensive than T2-BS and generally cost more to fit. Carriers cannot travel through High Sec, and take about a year to train properly. Also, If factional hulls are better than T1 hulls, then by your reasoning I shouldn't be seeing those T1 hulls anywhere, but yet I see them everywhere.


Carriers can be insured and are a lot easier to replace than Faction- or T2-BS(TFI anyone?) when you whelp a dozen of them, and there's a reason why it takes a long time to train into a ship with such improved RR- and Drone-Capabilities. Those ship concepts simply do not belong into Highsec.
And with your last point, I assume you missunderstood me at some point, I did not say anything like that.