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possible way to balance minmatar
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Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2011-11-14 07:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebastian N Cain
ElCholo wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Fast ships using projectile weapons... in no way there are similarities... oh, wait.


Yet some how.... all the angel ships have more speed and more range than Minmatar.... so yah, let's lump them together so we can say that Minmatar needs to be nerfed.

Then obviously Gallente is OP. Seen the Vindi, Vigilant, and Daredevil? Hell, the Vigilant can hit out to 21k with high damage blaster ammo! The Daredevil can put out Cruiser DPS! Nerf Gallente!

Idiots like you constantly astound me.

Well, those three don´t show up in the top 20, so how OP could they be? It just might be possible that they have some serious downsides to their strengths that you forgot to mention?

You know, just because they look good in EFT doesn´t mean jack.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-11-14 08:53:38 UTC
ElCholo wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Fast ships using projectile weapons... in no way there are similarities... oh, wait.


Yet some how.... all the derp ships have more herp and more derp than Minmatar.... so yah, let's derp them together so we can say that derp needs to be herped.

Then obviously Gallente is derp. Seen the Derpi, Herpilant, and Derpdevil? Derp, the Herpiilant can hit out to 21k with derp damage herp ammo! The Derpdevil can put out Herp DPS! Herp Derp!

Idiots like me constantly astound you.

What Sebastian N Cain said is true.

Also, most ships in EVE are simply out-classed by the Minmatar version.
Rupture vs Moa
Wolf vs Retribution
Cyclone vs Ferox
Sleipnir vs Astarte
Maelstrom vs Rokh
Thrasher vs Every other destroyer
Vagabond vs Deimos


Finally, Vindicator vs Machariel.
Ever heard of kiting?
Even an armour-fit Machs can MWD faster than a Rupture.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2011-11-14 09:09:54 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Fast ships using projectile weapons... in no way there are similarities... oh, wait.


Yet some how.... all the derp ships have more herp and more derp than Minmatar.... so yah, let's derp them together so we can say that derp needs to be herped.

Then obviously Gallente is derp. Seen the Derpi, Herpilant, and Derpdevil? Derp, the Herpiilant can hit out to 21k with derp damage herp ammo! The Derpdevil can put out Herp DPS! Herp Derp!

Idiots like me constantly astound you.

What Sebastian N Cain said is true.

Also, most ships in EVE are simply out-classed by the Minmatar version.
Rupture vs Moa
Wolf vs Retribution
Cyclone vs Ferox
Sleipnir vs Astarte
Maelstrom vs Rokh
Thrasher vs Every other destroyer
Vagabond vs Deimos


Finally, Vindicator vs Machariel.
Ever heard of kiting?
Even an armour-fit Machs can MWD faster than a Rupture.


I see wut yoo did thar.

And only a carebear, eftwhore, or complete tard wouldn't.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-11-14 10:36:56 UTC
ElCholo wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Fast ships using projectile weapons... in no way there are similarities... oh, wait.


Yet some how.... all the derp ships have more herp and more derp than Minmatar.... so yah, let's derp them together so we can say that derp needs to be herped.

Then obviously Gallente is derp. Seen the Derpi, Herpilant, and Derpdevil? Derp, the Herpiilant can hit out to 21k with derp damage herp ammo! The Derpdevil can put out Herp DPS! Herp Derp!

Idiots like me constantly astound you.

What Sebastian N Cain said is true.

Also, most ships in EVE are simply out-classed by the Minmatar version.
Rupture vs Moa
Wolf vs Retribution
Cyclone vs Ferox
Sleipnir vs Astarte
Maelstrom vs Rokh
Thrasher vs Every other destroyer
Vagabond vs Deimos


Finally, Vindicator vs Machariel.
Ever heard of kiting?
Even an armour-fit Machs can MWD faster than a Rupture.


I see wut yoo did thar.

And only a carebear, eftwhore, or complete tard wouldn't.

Even if he brought up more competitive examples than Rokh and Ferox you can hardly deny that the Minmatar belongs to the best anywhere in the subcap area. There might be some ships equally good as their Minmatar counterpart but hardly any better (Tengu or Apoc maybe... but you really have to look hard to find those very very few examples).

The main problem with the Minmatar is their flexibility. It´s fine to have a generalist race that is competitive everywhere, but it must not be outstanding anywhere as well or else it becomes OP. If you want outstanding performance anywhere, the race has to be their competitiveness restricted to those areas.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2011-11-14 11:04:45 UTC
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Even if he brought up more competitive examples than Rokh and Ferox you can hardly deny that the Minmatar belongs to the best anywhere in the subcap area. There might be some ships equally good as their Minmatar counterpart but hardly any better (Tengu or Apoc maybe... but you really have to look hard to find those very very few examples).

The main problem with the Minmatar is their flexibility. It´s fine to have a generalist race that is competitive everywhere, but it must not be outstanding anywhere as well or else it becomes OP. If you want outstanding performance anywhere, the race has to be their competitiveness restricted to those areas.


Merlin is on-par with the Rifter.
Hookbill is better than a Firetail.
Zealot is a better armor HAC than a Muninn (by far).
Drakes are better than Canes.
Tengus better than Lokis.
Scorpion more useful than the Phoon.
Abaddon is superior to the Maelstrom.

Nidhoggurs? lol
Hels? lol
Naglfar, at least, on-par with other dreads.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2011-11-14 11:51:48 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Even if he brought up more competitive examples than Rokh and Ferox you can hardly deny that the Minmatar belongs to the best anywhere in the subcap area. There might be some ships equally good as their Minmatar counterpart but hardly any better (Tengu or Apoc maybe... but you really have to look hard to find those very very few examples).

The main problem with the Minmatar is their flexibility. It´s fine to have a generalist race that is competitive everywhere, but it must not be outstanding anywhere as well or else it becomes OP. If you want outstanding performance anywhere, the race has to be their competitiveness restricted to those areas.


Merlin is on-par with the Rifter.
Hookbill is better than a Firetail.
Zealot is a better armor HAC than a Muninn (by far).
Drakes are better than Canes.
Tengus better than Lokis.
Scorpion more useful than the Phoon.
Abaddon is superior to the Maelstrom.

Nidhoggurs? lol
Hels? lol
Naglfar, at least, on-par with other dreads.


omg ... noobmatar ....
merlin is onpar with the rifter???? loooooool , maybe in your dreams noobi
hookbill is better than a firetail...
zealot is better armor hac than a muninn , oh no an armor hac is better than a skirmish hac in armor tank fit
drakes are better than canes... no not rly different yes , better no
tengus better than lokis , one ship which outclass matar , this cant be happening
scorp vs phoon.... pff just pff ,compare them is so stupid only a matar pilot could come up with that
abaddon vs mael , oh yeah heavy tanked armor resist bonused ship is better than a shield boost bonused ship, yep shield boost bonus sux for fleet pvp

nidhoggurs ?? is fine , consider shield capital vs armor capital unbalance
naglfar is fine,still better than the caldari dread for sure
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#67 - 2011-11-14 12:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruah Piskonit
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Fast ships using projectile weapons... in no way there are similarities... oh, wait.


Yet some how.... all the derp ships have more herp and more derp than Minmatar.... so yah, let's derp them together so we can say that derp needs to be herped.

Then obviously Gallente is derp. Seen the Derpi, Herpilant, and Derpdevil? Derp, the Herpiilant can hit out to 21k with derp damage herp ammo! The Derpdevil can put out Herp DPS! Herp Derp!

Idiots like me constantly astound you.

What Sebastian N Cain said is true.

Also, most ships in EVE are simply out-classed by the Minmatar version.
Rupture vs Moa
Wolf vs Retribution
Cyclone vs Ferox
Sleipnir vs Astarte
Maelstrom vs Rokh
Thrasher vs Every other destroyer
Vagabond vs Deimos


Finally, Vindicator vs Machariel.
Ever heard of kiting?
Even an armour-fit Machs can MWD faster than a Rupture.


I see wut yoo did thar.

And only a carebear, eftwhore, or complete tard wouldn't.

Even if he brought up more competitive examples than Rokh and Ferox you can hardly deny that the Minmatar belongs to the best anywhere in the subcap area. There might be some ships equally good as their Minmatar counterpart but hardly any better (Tengu or Apoc maybe... but you really have to look hard to find those very very few examples).

The main problem with the Minmatar is their flexibility. It´s fine to have a generalist race that is competitive everywhere, but it must not be outstanding anywhere as well or else it becomes OP. If you want outstanding performance anywhere, the race has to be their competitiveness restricted to those areas.


Oh this sounds like what i was saying. . .

its an easy fix - Mini get their dps cut, keep their kiting range, speed, versatility and arti alpha (which is super cool feature btw - the radically different nature of AC/Arti. . .). And believe me, it will still be a great fight. It will take a little more skill and a lot more time to kill your enemy, but he still can't catch you or track you or both.

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but its really quite obvious in the game how big it is.

And don't compare ship examples - like Sebastian said - it will take effort to find the exceptions.
Phill C
Death Runs Riot
Out of the Blue.
#68 - 2011-11-14 12:45:45 UTC
Ruah Piskonit wrote:

Oh this sounds like what i was saying. . .

its an easy fix - Mini get their dps cut, keep their kiting range, speed, versatility and arti alpha (which is super cool feature btw - the radically different nature of AC/Arti. . .). And believe me, it will still be a great fight. It will take a little more skill and a lot more time to kill your enemy, but he still can't catch you or track you or both.

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but its really quite obvious in the game how big it is.

And don't compare ship examples - like Sebastian said - it will take effort to find the exceptions.


F U,
Also its mostly CCP's fault for nerfing the crap out of speed back in the day. before the nano Nerf it wasn't like this. Minmatar guns are ON PAR with all other racial guns. For the most part blasters cant do thier job to be viable (its an issue with thier ships being SLOW or sumthing idk... ) BUT I THINK THATS GETTING FIXED READ A DEVBLOG YOU UNSAVORY NUCKLE HEADS.


so.. can we call this a end to yet another "PLEASE NERF THAT IT MAKES ME CRY AT NIGHT" thread
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#69 - 2011-11-14 13:27:46 UTC
Since there is a Amarr conspiracy trying to destroy Minmatar. I think it only fitting I point it out. These hating c0unt focks are always trying to keep the MInmatar down. With so many Minmatar slaves! You'd think these pricks would be happy. NERF AMARR! They're to golden and Scorch is to purple. NERF WINAMARR (see what i did there).
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2011-11-14 13:31:06 UTC
Phill C wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:

Oh this sounds like what i was saying. . .

its an easy fix - Mini get their dps cut, keep their kiting range, speed, versatility and arti alpha (which is super cool feature btw - the radically different nature of AC/Arti. . .). And believe me, it will still be a great fight. It will take a little more skill and a lot more time to kill your enemy, but he still can't catch you or track you or both.

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but its really quite obvious in the game how big it is.

And don't compare ship examples - like Sebastian said - it will take effort to find the exceptions.


F U,
Also its mostly CCP's fault for nerfing the crap out of speed back in the day. before the nano Nerf it wasn't like this. Minmatar guns are ON PAR with all other racial guns. For the most part blasters cant do thier job to be viable (its an issue with thier ships being SLOW or sumthing idk... ) BUT I THINK THATS GETTING FIXED READ A DEVBLOG YOU UNSAVORY NUCKLE HEADS.


so.. can we call this a end to yet another "PLEASE NERF THAT IT MAKES ME CRY AT NIGHT" thread


weapons maybe balanced but the hulls arent , matar hulls are way too good , nerf them ,nerf them hard
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-14 13:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Naomi Knight wrote:
Phill C wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:

Oh this sounds like what i was saying. . .

its an easy fix - Mini get their dps cut, keep their kiting range, speed, versatility and arti alpha (which is super cool feature btw - the radically different nature of AC/Arti. . .). And believe me, it will still be a great fight. It will take a little more skill and a lot more time to kill your enemy, but he still can't catch you or track you or both.

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but its really quite obvious in the game how big it is.

And don't compare ship examples - like Sebastian said - it will take effort to find the exceptions.


F U,
Also its mostly CCP's fault for nerfing the crap out of speed back in the day. before the nano Nerf it wasn't like this. Minmatar guns are ON PAR with all other racial guns. For the most part blasters cant do thier job to be viable (its an issue with thier ships being SLOW or sumthing idk... ) BUT I THINK THATS GETTING FIXED READ A DEVBLOG YOU UNSAVORY NUCKLE HEADS.


so.. can we call this a end to yet another "PLEASE NERF THAT IT MAKES ME CRY AT NIGHT" thread


weapons maybe balanced but the hulls arent , matar hulls are way too good , nerf them ,nerf them hard



2 possible nerfs to matari hulls:

1 - axe falloff bonuses by half
2 - make blaster ships faster

do both and balance is achieved.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Byteflux
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#72 - 2011-11-14 14:09:07 UTC
Nerf whining slavers
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#73 - 2011-11-14 18:18:54 UTC
Grimpak wrote:

2 possible nerfs to matari hulls:

1 - axe falloff bonuses by half
2 - make blaster ships faster

do both and balance is achieved.


Get ready to be gored by the minmatar balance-police.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#74 - 2011-11-14 18:35:34 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Grimpak wrote:

2 possible nerfs to matari hulls:

1 - axe falloff bonuses by half
2 - make blaster ships faster

do both and balance is achieved.


Get ready to be gored by the minmatar balance-police.

TBH 2 shouldn't be needed if the blaster buffs prove effective, and 1 is one of the few nerf ideas that actually makes sense. The 10% falloff bonus is a remnant of the days before TEs gave 30% falloff, and it's perfectly valid to claim it needs nerfing.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#75 - 2011-11-14 18:47:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Cambarus wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Grimpak wrote:

2 possible nerfs to matari hulls:

1 - axe falloff bonuses by half
2 - make blaster ships faster

do both and balance is achieved.


Get ready to be gored by the minmatar balance-police.

TBH 2 shouldn't be needed if the blaster buffs prove effective, and 1 is one of the few nerf ideas that actually makes sense. The 10% falloff bonus is a remnant of the days before TEs gave 30% falloff, and it's perfectly valid to claim it needs nerfing.


I wasn't attempting to say which, if either, were needed. Just noting that anyone willing to say more than "herp, hybrids need to better." Tends to get crucified by the obvious minmatar fanbois. Both posts sound reasonable, so they probably won't last long.
Phill C
Death Runs Riot
Out of the Blue.
#76 - 2011-11-14 19:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Phill C
they are already buffing BLOATS(see what I did there)

on sisi i watched a catalyst rip a t2 cruiser hull in half? yea flown by someone who know how to use it.

with the new blaster and blaster boat buffs they may stand up well to other pvp ships.

i think its stupid to try and nerf one part of a game to make another more reliant.
sense they are already buffing blaster boat hulls blasters and blaster ammo. i think they will be fixed.

as for minmatar ships being in the top 20 on the eve kill board. suck it.. OR put the stats here for everyone to see and comment on. and a link to your source so we can verify what it says... if your going to pull that crap into here back up your story so i can rip it in half.
Phill C
Death Runs Riot
Out of the Blue.
#77 - 2011-11-14 19:03:54 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Phill C wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:

Oh this sounds like what i was saying. . .

its an easy fix - Mini get their dps cut, keep their kiting range, speed, versatility and arti alpha (which is super cool feature btw - the radically different nature of AC/Arti. . .). And believe me, it will still be a great fight. It will take a little more skill and a lot more time to kill your enemy, but he still can't catch you or track you or both.

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but its really quite obvious in the game how big it is.

And don't compare ship examples - like Sebastian said - it will take effort to find the exceptions.


F U,
Also its mostly CCP's fault for nerfing the crap out of speed back in the day. before the nano Nerf it wasn't like this. Minmatar guns are ON PAR with all other racial guns. For the most part blasters cant do thier job to be viable (its an issue with thier ships being SLOW or sumthing idk... ) BUT I THINK THATS GETTING FIXED READ A DEVBLOG YOU UNSAVORY NUCKLE HEADS.


so.. can we call this a end to yet another "PLEASE NERF THAT IT MAKES ME CRY AT NIGHT" thread


weapons maybe balanced but the hulls arent , matar hulls are way too good , nerf them ,nerf them hard


nice trollololololol
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#78 - 2011-11-14 19:05:39 UTC
Phill C wrote:
on sisi i watched a catalyst rip a t2 cruiser hull in half

as for minmatar ships being in the top 20 on the eve kill board. suck it..


Flawless logical argument. You totally demolished them Phil.
Phill C
Death Runs Riot
Out of the Blue.
#79 - 2011-11-14 19:16:34 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Phill C wrote:
on sisi i watched a catalyst rip a t2 cruiser hull in half

as for minmatar ships being in the top 20 on the eve kill board. suck it..


Flawless logical argument. You totally demolished them Phil.



you must be a liberal... that looks like their kind of tactic.. ya know take it out of context try and twist the meaning.

my point.. Galente Buffs are coming. (alote of people are trying to compare blaster boats to min (idk why)
They will have an affect yet undertermend but IT does look promising.

my second point. is that his reference to eve kill is useless with out frame of reference.


Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#80 - 2011-11-14 19:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Phill C wrote:

you must be a liberal... that looks like their kind of tactic.. ya know take it out of context try and twist the meaning.


What exactly was the context? I think the original meaning was preserved rather well.

Phill C wrote:

my point.. Galente Buffs are coming. (alote of people are trying to compare blaster boats to min (idk why)
They will have an affect yet undertermend but IT does look promising.


I guess i'll just take your word for it then! Looks promising? I've been on sisi and it didn't look particularly promising there just yet. I assume CCP is still rolling around ideas for how to get hybrids up to par. They've released incremental and small changes thus far and none of them have really changed the paradigm, just made fitting hybrid ships less of a chore to fit and raised their damage and tracking from utterly laughable to a little less laughable given their other drawbacks.

Phill C wrote:

my second point. is that his reference to eve kill is useless with out frame of reference.


You did a magnificent job of conveying that message. I don't know how anyone could mis-construe your fine-tuned prose as belligerent trolling.