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Lying About Identity No Longer Allowed Under EULA

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#201 - 2013-09-10 18:30:53 UTC
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Deep DonkeyPunch
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-09-10 18:31:46 UTC
Andski wrote:
Somebody prone to ragequitting over getting scammed is going to ragequit over something else inevitably. There's a point at which they'll realize that this isn't the game for them, whether it's getting scammed, suicide ganked, blown up trying to grab something out of lowsec, getting wardecced, being undersold on the market, or whatever. Competitive sandbox MMOs like EVE are simply not for them and CCP trying to shoehorn them in only degrades the experience the rest of us have by stripping away the aspects of the game that we enjoy until EVE is literally a generic "kill rats, collect gold" MMO with passive skill training.

True, One of the dudes i scammed is a ironwill man. Gets scammed for 24B in april, then get scammed again by me for 15B 2 months later and continues to play.

#freebarracuda #freedeesnider
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#203 - 2013-09-10 18:32:15 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?


No and yes.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#204 - 2013-09-10 18:33:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?


Fixed, no. Waiting for devs to let us know when they're done slapping the GM team around.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Deep DonkeyPunch
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-09-10 18:34:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?

Not fixed yet

#freebarracuda #freedeesnider
Lady Areola Fappington
#206 - 2013-09-10 18:36:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?



Read this, TL;DR is "Not allowed to pretend to be a recruiter for Goonswarm and scam people", among other things. Really broad and vague ToS update. CCP says they're taking our concerns into consideration for a possible clarification/rewrite, and one of your CSM bros has already talked with CCP about it.

Also, Grr goons.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#207 - 2013-09-10 18:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Key point "non-eve-playing". Sure your friend is OK with the point of Eve, as perceived.

Mos Eisley might be an interesting place, but if there ever was one, who would go there willingly?

Most people can deal with it, but given the choice, they don't want to feel like they've taken on an unpaid babysitting job.

It may or may not be the right course, and people's opinions will vary for sure. Nobody here is going to manage to force anything on anybody, no matter how much the rage about it.

If someone chooses to be in better company and not play Eve, there's nothing we can do about it.


Did I mention why he doesn't play eve? Because I don't think I did. Did I say he never played eve before? Did I say he had an outside perception of eve that would be out of touch with the playerbase?

Because you are wrong in all of those assumptions.

Secondly, we are talking about a video game here. Nobody's life is put at risk for stepping into an imaginary sandbox world.

Eve without 'bad guys doing bad things' can be boiled down to a whole lot of jumping, a whole lot of "pushbuttontorecievebacon" PvE and some admittedly entertaining but ultimately unsatisfying consensual pvp.

Legislate lying out of eve, you have no reason for the players who create the content, the players that make eve what it is, to stay. Oh sure you'd have some RP groups stick around, and some consensual combat groups, but the carebears would reign, the economy would collapse. People will eventually realise that without evil, what the hell is the point of good?

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
SAJUK NIGARRA
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2013-09-10 18:41:30 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Hey everyone. It's evening here in Reykjavík, our senior staff are presumably at home with their families and it may take until tomorrow to get this all cleared up in an official manner.

I can assure you that this is intended in the best way, as clarification of policy that's been in effect for a long time so I hope we have your patience until office hours tomorrow. Nothing bad will happen in the meantime.

If it turns out that this change to the wording is actually too far reaching, goes against its intended purpose, or is somehow confusing things rather than clarifying them, that will be taken care of...trust me. If it turns out to make sense despite the worries you guys have, proper explanations will be provided.

I want to give the people responsible for drafting the policy a chance to read your posts and address the matter. Agreed?



I am sure everyone will wait, but for ****'s sake, can't you guys think more before changing stuff, instead of having to do damage control afterwards ?
None ofthe Above
#209 - 2013-09-10 18:42:31 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Rental space scams (we don't allow this internally any longer). .



Thats not what I heard would you like to know more?


Given that our forums have page after page of people angry about the ban, you've heard wrong.


Still waiting to see if the scam has just been "nationalized" and can only now be performed by your "officials". But I suppose that's off topic.

On topic: Glad to see the devs revisiting the changed wording based on feedback here.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#210 - 2013-09-10 18:43:42 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:

I do tell them about the one guy who disbanded an alliance of thousands with the click of a button.

Was Haargoth actually in contravention of the ToS (as it has always existed this way according to some) not once but twice, firstly for misrepresenting himself to goon recruiters and secondly for misrepresenting himself by taking the actions of "someone responsible for the alliance" when in fact he had ceased to be that after being recruited?


Nope your time line, facts or "guess" at the events are wrong.


Not to mention like any other story of lore it is all sorts of ****** up.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#211 - 2013-09-10 18:44:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
When I tell my friends about EVE, I don't tell them about dragging ore every 3 minutes.

I don't tell them that they can run the same 30 or so missions until the end of time and watch their wallet grow.

I don't tell them they can have a 'home' in space, since POS would never live up to their expectations of what a game should be.

I do tell them there are consequences for their actions, that their choices have meaning, and their interactions with other players define how they will enjoy the game.

I do tell them about the one guy who disbanded an alliance of thousands with the click of a button.

Was Haargoth actually in contravention of the ToS (as it has always existed this way according to some) not once but twice, firstly for misrepresenting himself to goon recruiters and secondly for misrepresenting himself by taking the actions of "someone responsible for the alliance" when in fact he had ceased to be that after being recruited?

Want to know what a non-eve-playing friend said when I told him about this ToS change?

"Isn't that kinda the whole point of eve?"




Key point "non-eve-playing". Sure your friend is OK with the point of Eve, as perceived.

Mos Eisley might be an interesting place, but if there ever was one, who would go there willingly?

Most people can deal with it, but given the choice, they don't want to feel like they've taken on an unpaid babysitting job.

It may or may not be the right course, and people's opinions will vary for sure. Nobody here is going to manage to force anything on anybody, no matter how much the rage about it.

If someone chooses to be in better company and not play Eve, there's nothing we can do about it.



Except that eve is a game a unique game, same as Mos Eisley is a fictional place, and people chose to play EVE (and stick with it) because of it's uniqueness when it advertises itself as a cold dark place you expect to see a dark cold unforgiving spaceship shooting game with all it's freedom that allows you to do ANYTHING you want, if they can't handle it there are plenty of other games for them but there is only ONE eve, so you can see why people get upset with any slight change because they can't just "pack up and leave" because no other game allows this type of player interaction and freedom..

And to even think that people leave this game because of scammers is insane, after scammers are gone they will just complain about any other "unfair" mechanic, bumping, suicide ganking etc.

Also has any intelligent human form ever been scammed? Usually in all its depth and plotting scamming can be summed with a simple phrase "Trust me with your money" and anyone would be a fool to do that, or a lack of search on the subject you're dealing with which is equally stupid. Now spying on the other hand..
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#212 - 2013-09-10 18:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: JinSanJong
stop bloody whining for the love of god. Goons got scammed by CCP, medicine, own, taste comes to mind. Deal with it.

its about time CCP starting caring about the future of eve. All these whiny moaning vets are not the future, they will be quitting the game soon, then whats left. CCP needs to start looking at what new players want and need, as new players subs and staying playing is pretty non existant. Scamming is one thing that really really stops new players continuing playing. When i just started i quit for a while cos i got scammed, and i know many others have. There is no protection at all against it. If it was up to me, i would stop it completely.
Callic Veratar
#213 - 2013-09-10 18:46:33 UTC
For the purporsed of context:

This character was created to scam people out of money based on the sheet of this character.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-09-10 18:48:43 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Agreed with one exception: Why should falsely claiming to be Chribba's alt (or The Mittani's, or Shadoo's, or mine) be a violation? It's easily verifiable by anyone with the sense to make a few basic checks.


I sat and thought on it for a moment, and it's more for the discrediting bit, than for the scamming aspect.

Jimbo the Moron running around the other side of the cluster, ripping off people while having "I am Chribba's alt" in bio.
I suppose it could be an edge case, though. There are some who value their name in EVE, and you can't be everywhere at once.

But should this be for CCP to handle with a banhammer, or up to the player who's reputation is being tarnished to deal with in-game? Surely Chribba's alt would not be flying around the other side of the universe with a two billion ISK bounty for a simple start.

There is also a distinction to be made between a bold claim to be Chribba's alt, which Chribba could easily discount in his own bio, and making a character named Chrlbba in an attempt to impersonate him.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#215 - 2013-09-10 18:49:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?


Sadly, we have a few lawyers in goonwaffe, so sometimes we take exception at poor word choices in Terms of Service, which could be used against our membership as well as other entities. The banning of representing NPC groups is particularly bad for MOA and CVA, for instance.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#216 - 2013-09-10 18:49:55 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:

I do tell them about the one guy who disbanded an alliance of thousands with the click of a button.

Was Haargoth actually in contravention of the ToS (as it has always existed this way according to some) not once but twice, firstly for misrepresenting himself to goon recruiters and secondly for misrepresenting himself by taking the actions of "someone responsible for the alliance" when in fact he had ceased to be that after being recruited?


Nope your time line, facts or "guess" at the events are wrong.


Not to mention like any other story of lore it is all sorts of ****** up.






My bad, thought I was referencing the official story.

Besides, it was an entirely rhetorical point. Of course Haargoth wouldn't be banned for taking those actions, it is an illustration of how far an interpretation of the poorly-worded new terms could be taken.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#217 - 2013-09-10 18:51:13 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?


Sadly, we have a few lawyers in goonwaffe, so sometimes we take exception at poor word choices in Terms of Service, which could be used against our membership as well as other entities. The banning of representing NPC groups is particularly bad for MOA and CVA, for instance.


Remedial's back?
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#218 - 2013-09-10 18:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: JinSanJong
Kismeteer wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
OK fill me in here, is this something I need to care about or has it been fixed and it's just grr goons vs grr carebears until the thread gets locked?


Sadly, we have a few lawyers in goonwaffe, so sometimes we take exception at poor word choices in Terms of Service, which could be used against our membership as well as other entities. The banning of representing NPC groups is particularly bad for MOA and CVA, for instance.



WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK. CVA dont claim to BE Amarr. The fight with/for the Amarr. Theres a big difference. It doesnt effect them at all. If they said WE ARE the Amarr then thats different, but they dont.

Goons crying yet again, the quicker this game/ccp stops pandering to Goons and stops it being goons online, the better.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#219 - 2013-09-10 18:51:46 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
For the purporsed of context:

This character was created to scam people out of money based on the sheet of this character.


That is against the TOS currently, in the past, and always. And will be in the future.

You can't say 'I am Chibra'. However, what is now illegal is someone saying 'I work with Chibra, you can trust me', as you are now possibly representing yourself illegally per the new TOS. It should be put on the person doing the trusting to check your references.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2013-09-10 18:53:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Aryth wrote:
One of the great things about EVE is the "hook". Also why DUST is failing.

EVE is the only game around where there is a sandbox where you can play sociopaths in space, scammer extraordinaire, megalomaniac that commits war crimes, super spy that takes down empires, robber who specializes in thefts, cruel pirate, economy shaping market warlord, etc.

These are the things that make EVE better than any other game out there for those that enjoy interacting in a world with those archtypes. Ships in space while a niche, is not truly the niche that makes EVE excel. It is the broad and deep and endless possibilities of the sandbox itself.

In general the Goon position is for an expansive sandbox as possible. Scamming is not my playstyle of choice and I have never participated in it, but I do love the new stories and drama it generates. Impersonation is a cornerstone of many scams and I would not like to see that leave EVE.




Sandbox and litterbox are not the same.



Tell that to the cat.

Opportunities are opportunities.


Feral cats are eliminated in the real world where people are running real farms. It's only where cats are coddled by people who think they are cute and not pests where they exist in larger numbers.

Maybe CCP decided not to coddle the feral cats any more?


I don't see people playing "Farming while being foiled by Feral Cats you can't do anything about Online".

Yeah I know - throw the boilerplate "wardec/bounty/gank" back at me. Big deal.

You know, given a choice, most people can handle asshats. But also give the choice as to whether or not they want to even cross paths with them, they choose not to. Who cares to deal with someone's SSRI wonder in a darkened room somewhere? It's not like we are all cops now, having to put up with every miscreant because its.... oh oh... our job or something. And every MMO risks feeling like a job, even for good reasons.

So they want to draw a line at who you can impersonate. Big freaking deal.

The apparent freakout over this indicates that people were indeed abusing something.



One man's trash is another man's treasure?

When life gives you lemons make lemonade?

I can keep going on and on, point is, that regardless if your cat is feral or domesticated, we all use different things in different ways.

The way you play is not necessarily the way I play, and CCP gets to say yes or no regardless.

When CCP says you can't treat their sandbox like your litterbox, they will show they mean it.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.