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Eve Miners Guide to the New Order of Highsec (A.K.A. James 315 and his gang), Part 1
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Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-09-10 16:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Lucas Kell wrote:

While yes, it's a game and there's a separation between RL and EVE, but what you guys tend to engage in is not attacking a character, but an individuals method of playing the game. You repeatedly attack the same group of people telling them they are not allowed to play the game their way. In your FPS example, it's the equivalent of spawncamping permanently. Sure, it's a way to play the game, but since it's a multiplayer game, there's a certain level of social responsibility to ensure you are not permanently ruining the same individuals fun.

I don't really have a problem with the ganking crowd, but I can see how it would upset people and how I would consider what you do for your fun at the expense of a specific group of others to be on the shadier side of morality. Other people gank but they gank everyone, or they scam, but they scam everyone. They don't pick a certain target simply because it's easy to harass, then repeatedly attack that group until they are forced to change their playstyle or quit.

Honestly though, considering we already heard last week how you guys take some of this way beyond the confines of the game and purposely harass then defame people out of game, the discussion about your morality is not really required.


As I've always said, its not that we gank, its that we have a reason to gank that really ticks people off. Gank for lols and narry a thread would ever appear on the forums. You want to keep from being bumped or ganked? Buy a measly 10mil permit. Or move to another system. I hear all the time how the NO is very small and is only in a few systems, so it shouldn't be hard to find a new place to mine. Or you could, idk, tank your barge and watch local. I met a guy one time who brick tanked his Retreiver and we failed the gank. Then he actually said 'gf' in local. I was stunned. Turned out, that is his version of PvP. Waiting for gankers and trying to see if he can live long enough to survive the gank. It was awesome.

I don't remember hearing about a New Order knight or agent harassing anyone out of game. If that is true, the person being harrased should file a petition. No one I know in the NO would condone such a thing.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#102 - 2013-09-10 16:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Yup, we target a specific group of people, ill-fit minders. Did you know, lowsec pirates target people carrying expensive cargo, and nullsec alliances target people they want to take/defend land from? The New Order also tends to spread out and move around some, as it helps prevent targeting the same person over and over again.

As for "changing playstyles"...you know, this is EVE. The cold, dark dystopian world where it's dog eat dog, morals are subjective, and you're only as strong as the guns you can bring to a fight. Yeah, I'd expect one to change their playstyle, if they think that means "Fly in in a retty, lock up some roids, and go watch Hulu till you hear asteroid depleted". Now, you may not be aware of this, but in PVP, when someone brings out a ship/fleet/doctrine that counters what you are flying, you "change your playstyle". He's got a brawler, better go fit kitey. Kitefit, go grab a brawler. These guys use cloaks, load up on smartbombs.
You can chuck as much justification on it as you think you need. It doesn't change the fact that you know you are upsetting some people in real life and proceed without pause. You chose to act in a way that brings you joy at the expense of others. If you are fine with that, by all means proceed. EVE is a harsh place with few rules and you are free to act as you wish. At the end of the day the only person you have to answer to is you.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Now, I'm pretty sure yer referring to Erotica 1 with the whole harassing and defaming out of game, well, that was the mark's decision to continue. Nobody held a gun to the guys head, or threatened his family. All said mark had to do was disconnect, walk off, and end it all. Greed, however, tends to be a powerful motivator for people to do silly things. And yes, I spent my time singing on teamspeak as a ransom. Used to be, you got teased a little bit, maybe a blogpost if you were really awful, and a pat on the back for saving your ship. Nowdays, getting someone to sing on TS is some kind of crime against humanity.
I'm not really one that generally believe it's the victims fault. I've listened to the whole clip. It's clear from the get-go that the guys is easy to manipulate, and at that point I would have stopped and been done with it, walking away with the original profit in hand. Would you say the same about an old lady getting beaten and robbed in her house because she didn't realise the guy at her front door was not really from the gas company? She let him in after all. I can think of countless examples, but the majority of them would not be suitable for posting on a game forum.

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Just to throw out a little thing on morals, this morning I listened to a very disturbing voicemail. Someone using a voice modulator called my cell, and told me he knew my address, my workplace, and the make of car I drove. I was told to apologize to the "highsec Mining Community" and post proof of deletion of my accounts, "or else". I'm sure, being the awful evil ganker, blowing up spaceships in the spaceship exploding game, that I deserved that, according to some. Yes, the police are involved. I'll soundcloud the message as soon as I get my phone back.
That's bad, glad you are handling it correctly. Their actions are terrible, that's a given, but that doesn't change anything to do with yours. I can understand you'd be rightfully upset, and that's probably had some impact on your posting, but that's got nothing to do with why you pick the choices you do in game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
brinelan
#103 - 2013-09-10 16:27:16 UTC
Seems like a whole lot of work that could have been avoided by just moving to a different system to mine.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-09-10 16:38:09 UTC
What we have here exceeds the Wall of text by a long shot. I here by coin the term "Fortress of Text". Insurmountable from all sides, this marvel is a site to see.
Lady Areola Fappington
#105 - 2013-09-10 16:48:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
~snipped for brevity~


I can respect your first point. At some point, you're going to upset someone in EVE. I've heard quite the rants from some market fiends about the blankity blank blanks undercutting their blanking orders by blanking .01ISK. On this character, I choose to be a bad guy. I just see as no better or worse than being "Robbers" in "Cops and Robbers", or playing the terrorists in Counter-Strike.

Second point, I consider the whole thing to be within EVE. EVE the games, the forums, assorted news sites and blogs, it's all "in the game". Yes, EVE is a "Victims fault" game. Regarding an old lady being beaten and robbed, that's a false equivalency. One is EVE, a video game. The other is a horrible crime committed in Real life. Guy gets overwhelmed by greed, does silly things. Had Erotica said something along the lines of "Now send me your carkeys/nude pictures/ bank ID and PIN number", then yes, it would have ventured into RL. Singing in TS is something many of us get to experience. At most, it dings some pride. At best, everyone gets a giggle and your rendition of Lady GaGa's "Alejandro" is banned from the home (True fact, I get glared at by EVERYONE if I even hum that song anymore) .

To answer the last part of your third point, Why not? I pay my sub fee, I want to experience all aspects of the game. I've been a supercap pilot, T2 manufacturer, logistics both repair ship and alliance. I've FC'ed megafleets and small roams. I've yarr'ed in Low, then turned around and hunted blinkies. RIght now, I feel like highsec ganking, running a mining corp, and hauling for ISK.

Perhaps I just see things differently. EVE doesn't upset the person behind the keyboard, here. When I start getting annoyed, I just log off and do something else. Lady Fappington the ganker holds about as much weight to me as Ezio Auditore does when I play Assassin's Creed. What happens to Lady Fap, my other avatars, the video game chars I play, happens to them, not me, the person typing right now.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2013-09-10 16:50:38 UTC
I like listening to TS recordings of scams about as much as I like listening to prank call recordings. Which is to say, not at all. So I haven't listened to any of Erotica 1's recordings. But normal definitions of "harassing someone outside of game" usually include posting the victims real name/address on web sites, making threatening calls, etc. I'd not normally call a consensual TS conversation as harassing someone. If I stand outside my house naked, I can hardly claim the neighbors are pervs for looking at my awesome nudditry.

So hopefully there is something more to the claim than an audio recording of a guy getting scammed out of make believe "assets".

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Lady Areola Fappington
#107 - 2013-09-10 16:53:09 UTC
Mal, I'm gonna need you out in the yard in your birthday suit about 7PMish, too. Just a FYI.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-09-10 16:56:33 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Mal, I'm gonna need you out in the yard in your birthday suit about 7PMish, too. Just a FYI.


Might want to make that 10pm. I might have overstated the awesomeness.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-09-10 16:58:08 UTC
United Nations needs to act and take away OP's enter key, for the good of all peoples.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#110 - 2013-09-10 17:06:25 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
[quote=Lady Areola Fappington]Just to throw out a little thing on morals, this morning I listened to a very disturbing voicemail. Someone using a voice modulator called my cell, and told me he knew my address, my workplace, and the make of car I drove. I was told to apologize to the "highsec Mining Community" and post proof of deletion of my accounts, "or else". I'm sure, being the awful evil ganker, blowing up spaceships in the spaceship exploding game, that I deserved that, according to some. Yes, the police are involved. I'll soundcloud the message as soon as I get my phone back.


While that kind of behavior is under no circumstances acceptable, it also kind of proves my point... your actions brought this reaction (as misguided as it might be) about... yea, it's a game, and yea, the boundaries should be clear cut, alas they aren't always and for everyone.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#111 - 2013-09-10 17:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tollen Gallen
Kharmha wrote:
Dribble........................................................................................................................................................................................

went after JamesSomethingOrOther............................dribble...................................................................................................

.......................................................dribble.................................................................................................................................

.................almost got him..........................................................................................................................................................

...................................................................dribble....................................................................................................................

almost got him again..................................................................................................................................................................

(To be Continued)



I like Procs, and Battleships, mining is ok, but have to be in the right mood for it.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#112 - 2013-09-10 17:16:19 UTC
Dear OP - This is not your blog.

If you do not have a blog, get one.

They are much easier to ignore than front page of GD

Personal Standings Services - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - 7+ Day Old Corps for Highsec POS Sales
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#113 - 2013-09-10 17:18:29 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
[quote=Lady Areola Fappington]Just to throw out a little thing on morals, this morning I listened to a very disturbing voicemail. Someone using a voice modulator called my cell, and told me he knew my address, my workplace, and the make of car I drove. I was told to apologize to the "highsec Mining Community" and post proof of deletion of my accounts, "or else". I'm sure, being the awful evil ganker, blowing up spaceships in the spaceship exploding game, that I deserved that, according to some. Yes, the police are involved. I'll soundcloud the message as soon as I get my phone back.


While that kind of behavior is under no circumstances acceptable, it also kind of proves my point... your actions brought this reaction (as misguided as it might be) about... yea, it's a game, and yea, the boundaries should be clear cut, alas they aren't always and for everyone.


OMG, if that's the case....I ran over some Hoes last night while playing grand theft auto, I can now expect real life Hoes to knock on my door tomorrow to protest. I better stock up on lysol , antibiotics and condoms.
Lady Areola Fappington
#114 - 2013-09-10 17:25:40 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
[quote=Lady Areola Fappington]Just to throw out a little thing on morals, this morning I listened to a very disturbing voicemail. Someone using a voice modulator called my cell, and told me he knew my address, my workplace, and the make of car I drove. I was told to apologize to the "highsec Mining Community" and post proof of deletion of my accounts, "or else". I'm sure, being the awful evil ganker, blowing up spaceships in the spaceship exploding game, that I deserved that, according to some. Yes, the police are involved. I'll soundcloud the message as soon as I get my phone back.


While that kind of behavior is under no circumstances acceptable, it also kind of proves my point... your actions brought this reaction (as misguided as it might be) about... yea, it's a game, and yea, the boundaries should be clear cut, alas they aren't always and for everyone.


The thing that kinda amuses me, I'm a huge awful horrid highsec mining carebear on my other acct. Flying Orcas and fives in all the mining skills. There may be a chance that the same person threatening "me", has been flying with me on mining ops and singing praises there.

Honestly, I just don't "get it". Maybe it's just mental block from being a hardcore pen/paper RPGer, but, barring ToS issues, I could hand Lady Fappington to someone else, and all that bad evil ganker reputation goes right with it. I could go buy a superbear from the bazaar, and bring over all the rep that such a char would hold with bears. I could start a new account and become a New Order Hunter, and be loved by all the miners. That's how CCP designed the game. The obsession with getting to the person behind the screen doesn't appeal. Heck, I've even been known to gank someone, then turn around and hand them ISK, because they were cool about and treated it like a game.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#115 - 2013-09-10 17:29:00 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
You can sugarcoat it all you want, it's still not "right"... and you know it, or you wouldn't have to find excuses for it on every bend - not you specifically, mind you... I give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you believe what you are writig - still, forcing your opinion of how the game has to be played on others, is walking the fine line between asocial and amoral. It's only, somewhat tolerable 'cause EVE is the game it is.

...also: 100 bil may not be the most you could have gotten out of the whole "project", but it surely doesn't make you a good Samaritan, either. Blink


The is post is an example of someone playing the wrong video game because they are not mentally suited to that game.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#116 - 2013-09-10 17:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jenn aSide wrote:

OMG, if that's the case....I ran over some Hoes last night while playing grand theft auto, I can now expect real life Hoes to knock on my door tomorrow to protest. I better stock up on lysol , antibiotics and condoms.
If you need a hand coping with hoes.... I'm an internet spaceships geek after all P

Jenn aSide wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
You can sugarcoat it all you want, it's still not "right"... and you know it, or you wouldn't have to find excuses for it on every bend - not you specifically, mind you... I give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you believe what you are writig - still, forcing your opinion of how the game has to be played on others, is walking the fine line between asocial and amoral. It's only, somewhat tolerable 'cause EVE is the game it is.

...also: 100 bil may not be the most you could have gotten out of the whole "project", but it surely doesn't make you a good Samaritan, either. Blink


The is post is an example of someone playing the wrong video game because they are not mentally suited to that game.
Shalua is usually pretty chill; she doesn't troll and spew obscenities or vitriol, and accepts that Eve is a dirty no holds barred game, even if she doesn't particularly like that aspect of the game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-09-10 17:41:02 UTC
The OP must be an ALT. I didn't read all six pages, but I did look for a KM link.

Here's what I found on Battleclinic.

Here's the only stabber I found being lost:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15158190

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#118 - 2013-09-10 17:42:28 UTC
That's the KM in question, it's only taken the OP 2 years to post it Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-09-10 17:51:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
[quote=Lady Areola Fappington]Just to throw out a little thing on morals, this morning I listened to a very disturbing voicemail. Someone using a voice modulator called my cell, and told me he knew my address, my workplace, and the make of car I drove. I was told to apologize to the "highsec Mining Community" and post proof of deletion of my accounts, "or else". I'm sure, being the awful evil ganker, blowing up spaceships in the spaceship exploding game, that I deserved that, according to some. Yes, the police are involved. I'll soundcloud the message as soon as I get my phone back.


While that kind of behavior is under no circumstances acceptable, it also kind of proves my point... your actions brought this reaction (as misguided as it might be) about... yea, it's a game, and yea, the boundaries should be clear cut, alas they aren't always and for everyone.


OMG, if that's the case....I ran over some Hoes last night while playing grand theft auto, I can now expect real life Hoes to knock on my door tomorrow to protest. I better stock up on lysol , antibiotics and condoms.


What I got from the response was that it was at least somewhat Lady's fault for acting all provocative like.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2013-09-10 17:54:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That's the KM in question, it's only taken the OP 2 years to post it Roll



A KM from 2 years ago, in a drake with missiles, does not constitute validation of a claim that she killed a different ship of James's, with a destroyer with guns, a few months ago. This KM, whether real or faked, is quite irrelevant to this thread. What's next, people posting KMs of podding Jonah Gravenstein as proof that they blew up the Mittani in his titan, with their cyno alt in a noobship?