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Encouraging solo PVP

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Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-09 10:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
There are a lot of players that seek solo PVP, and it's not so easy to find.

How to encourage solo PVP? My ideas:

- multiply the ransom if a pirate player is killed with no help

- increase the chance to drop modules if another ship is killed with no help

- add a "honor" rating that can be selected in overview, it increases with every solo kill or loss. "Honorable" players can see each other and maybe fight...

- monthly or weekly tournaments organized by CCP - kept very simple: sign up in game with a NPC agent (for roleplay), there is a system selected by CCP where scanning does not work, be there at the time, there are no stations and the system is closed once the tournament begins, nobody can bring more than 1 ship (any ship - so a Merlin can get paired with a Vindicator, this keeps the randomness of real solo PVP), then a CCP person has a giant list, and teleports the players in pairs of 2 to various places inside the system, with a timer of 10 minutes (?), then all pods get teleported out of the system (if there are draws, they can fight again with other opponents if they were not able to kill anything in 10 minutes), then repeat until 1 remains. The system will be closed to prevent others joining, but players would be able to get out if they want/can, decide they don't want to lose the ship, they just lose the place in the tournament.

2000 participants means - 11 ten minute fights to get to 1, that's 110 minutes + 30 for organizing, that's something like 2 hours.

Yes - it would not be fair for new players with cheap ships (same as random solo PVP), I just tried to make it simple, so maybe it will be implemented, if the CCP would want to get complicated, and use ship categories, it would be ok with me. Winners get nothing except what they loot.

- (Edit) Maybe winners get standing with the NPC agent corp, that is a new corp, same as other NPC corp with agents and missions, but players can gain LP and standings with every solo fight they get into.

Also CCP could broadcast the most interesting fights and get some publicity. The tournament could also use teams of 2, 3...10 (?), with the same rules (everything allowed, win or lose), for more interesting fights. If there are too many who sign up - maybe more systems, to accommodate them. Or a lottery... but, if it turns up these tournaments are popular, why not create the conditions for them.
Maybe even automate them... Like some barbarian war games that take place in no man's land. I know for sure I would be participating.

Players who run from their opponents by exiting the system - would find themselves on the gates in the nearby systems, where the cheering crowd will welcome them :)
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-09 11:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
Balance of ships for 1v1,will not be required. Because players can use all ships, and people will just use the best. And because EVE is so complex. there will never be a best ship.

Maybe it will be somehow automated like a Battleground in wow, rewards being - the loot from the enemies and standings towards the NPC corp. Players would talk to the agent, join as 1 or as a team of - 1..10 with the option of fighting a team of 1...10. If I join as 1 and accept fighting 2..3, my problem. Maybe even selecting the class of ships.

Then they get to the system where the tournament takes place. CCP offers no help for players to travel.
Once inside they find themselves in a safe, and are teleported to another safe when there is another team (suitable, with as many opponents as selected) or lone enemy ready to fight. If after a battle the team loses a few members - they will be paired with a smaller team, and so on. These fights would go on forever, with no final winner. Pods would be encouraged to exit the system by NPC hunting them, and the inability to place bookmarks. There would be an exit to a low sec system, so pods don't end up dead when exiting.

The tournament systems would have no station, same as nearby systems. After losing al ships, - players exit the system then they can come back. Maybe after a delay.
Raptim Sicario
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-09 11:35:21 UTC
Solo pvp is already perfect. It never was about gaining isk and I hope it never will be. Besides that if one decides to solo, that chances are he/she will looses more that gains.

As a solo pvper I don't wanna be marked by anything, also I don't want other solo pvpers to be marked. I sort of don't want to know whats coming. This would actually damage solo pvp as it is, giving it some kind of template. You get this honourable, almost arranged 1v1 fights in a lot in FW and in RvB.

The tournament would only work if it's ship class restricted, and that would be quite boring to watch unless people would bring golems and vindicators to compete which would never happen, because the price is so low. I can get a better price by running FW sites and having honourable pvp all day everyday with T1 frigates.

Don't touch mah sandbox !
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-09 11:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
Ok, forget the mark.

The tournament would not exist for making ISK, and people will join for fun. Are you saying that people will not seek fun in this game, only ISK? They will bring what they have, what they can afford to lose to have fun. Fun being - 1v1 or 3v3, with whatever class of ships they use and whatever class of opponents they select. There will be no survivors - if running away, the gates at exit will surely be camped. And there would be a lot of fighting outside, between people trying to get to the tournament.

If you want blob - it's easy to obtain, outside of the tournament. If you want solo pvp it's not easy to obtain. You can obtain it using my idea, and this does not mean you are a carebear. Maybe you are "elite PVP" and select - "I fight with my frigate against 3 opponents of any kind". The tournament does not make it easy, it just provides you with fast fights.

From a roleplay point of view - it's easy to imagine a pirate corp creating this tournament in lawless space. "Yes but we should be able to blob the pirate corp, and everyone at the tournament". Then - you should also be able to destroy everything in the game, destroy CONCORD, and so on. CONCORD puts limits in the sandbox, the tournament system would just add something, not limit anything.
Raptim Sicario
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-09 12:16:16 UTC
Getting these kinds of fights is extremely easy in RvB or in FW. Why would I need to risk my ship to actually go in this arena system if its camped. For sure I'm not getting out of that arena alive. So that limits the engagements back to T1 frigates (the same as in FW or RvB), but with added risk of getting smart bombed when jumping into the arena system and most definitely getting ganked when leaving it. If you just want to have fun there are already sandbox institutions for that.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#6 - 2013-09-09 13:55:59 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:
- multiply the ransom if a pirate player is killed with no help

Or full ransom paid to the person who kills them solo...just like now!

Quote:
increase the chance to drop modules if another ship is killed with no help

And make solo ganking in highsec even more hilariously profitable to the right person. Yeah, sounds great!

Quote:
add a "honor" rating that can be selected in overview, it increases with every solo kill or loss. "Honorable" players can see each other and maybe fight...

Verily and foorsooth, we shalt joust with the most HonoUrable of intentions this day to defend yonder virgin maid's chastity. Prepare yourself, ye swine!

Quote:
-incredibly bad tournament scheme-

Two concepts for you: wasted Dev time and sandbox PVP. Reasons to never do tournaments like that ever.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-09-09 16:22:37 UTC
The OP's system requires large amounts of "instancing" to function. That makes it an automatic "no" from me.

How did you Veterans start?
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-09-10 08:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
Forget the other ideas, I still support my tournament (automated) idea.

Solo PVP in the "sandbox": jump around until I hit a gatecamp, die. Or - try to scan people doing missions, this means I have to come first with a scanning ship, then change ship. No, I don't play with 2 accounts to check for gate camps, or to scan with another character.

I want instant access to PVP against other people that want instant acces to PVP, without being disturbed. Yes I can duel, but a 3 v 3 is harder to organize.

"Why don't you want to be disturbed, that's evil carebear!"
You will be able to attack players before they get there, or if they try to get out.

Also - there are lots of players sitting totally safe in stations, making billions, and you can't touch them. Because the stations are invulnerable (NPCs are cheating). My idea does not involve that. You will be able to kill me inside or outside of the tournament system.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-09-10 09:16:53 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:
without being disturbed.


Sorry, but no.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-09-10 09:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
Malcanis wrote:
Tian Toralen wrote:
without being disturbed.


Sorry, but no.

Well, then I suggest making all EVE null sec, with no NPC stations or agents. That would be a real sandbox. New players would get into a null alliance from the start. Null alliances would have to compete for getting new players, so they don't get outnumbered.

It's not like I would enter the tournament to be safe. Even allow bubbles inside, and no safety for pods if you want.

Maybe add an option like selecting which players to be matched against with high priority. So you can disturb who you want by constantly appearing as a tournament opponent. This - if you can get there. There would be escort fleets and fights going on outside, a lot of content from my point of view.
Raptim Sicario
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-09-10 11:55:49 UTC
Dude why are you pushing up ideas and have no idea how solo/small scale PVP works. Some of your sentences even show you don't know how eve itself works. Maybe try some institution already in existence which support this kind of PVP before creating ridiculous ideas;

YES you will get blobbed
YES you will get falconized
YES you will get bubbled
YES you will die a lot
YES that's what it's all about
YES we all love it !

Your idea proves that you want to build a controlled environment inside a perfectly build sandbox game and try to patch it up with another ridiculous idea when people raise an issue about it. The arena will never work because it destroys everything what EVE (my precious) as sandbox game stands for.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2013-09-10 16:19:59 UTC
Posting in a why can't Eve be like WoT thread.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-09-15 05:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Raptim Sicario wrote:
Dude why are you pushing up ideas and have no idea how solo/small scale PVP works. Some of your sentences even show you don't know how eve itself works. Maybe try some institution already in existence which support this kind of PVP before creating ridiculous ideas;

YES you will get blobbed
YES you will get falconized
YES you will get bubbled
YES you will die a lot
YES that's what it's all about
YES we all love it !

Your idea proves that you want to build a controlled environment inside a perfectly build sandbox game and try to patch it up with another ridiculous idea when people raise an issue about it. The arena will never work because it destroys everything what EVE (my precious) as sandbox game stands for.

No we don't all love it. For the most part its bad for both sides of the equation.

For the blobbed you have 1) no chance 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) no fun at all

For the blobbed you have 1) no risk 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) its boring and completely unchallenging

Solo / small gang pvp needs to be improved drastically.

I posted this in another thread but Ill repeat it here. Yesterday I fitted up a T2 fitted blaster Mega. My intention was to get it exploded in Rancer as I had noticed a T3 Legion, T2 Oneiros and T1 Drake on a gate flashy red. It was a suicide mission but might still be fun. I jump into Rancer locked / scrammed the Legion, the Drake n logi docked, Legion jumped into next system and docked. 3 v 1 they refused to engage.

This morning I undocked in same Mega jumped from Rancer to Creleire or whatever its called same guy that was in Legion was camping in a Harbinger with a logi. I lock up the Harb start shooting him, not long I have about 10 Pandemic Legion dropped on me.

I don't care about the ship but I do care about the game and its currently pure shite when 3 vs 1 run from the 1 because of risk aversion and even 2 vs one they need to be able to drop 10 other ships on you before they'll engage in a fight.

Edit: actually I just noticed the PL guys helped kill the guy in the Harb so I guess they were just roaming in a girlie blob and ran into us already engaged.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Raptim Sicario
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-09-17 12:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Raptim Sicario
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Raptim Sicario wrote:
Dude why are you pushing up ideas and have no idea how solo/small scale PVP works. Some of your sentences even show you don't know how eve itself works. Maybe try some institution already in existence which support this kind of PVP before creating ridiculous ideas;

YES you will get blobbed
YES you will get falconized
YES you will get bubbled
YES you will die a lot
YES that's what it's all about
YES we all love it !

Your idea proves that you want to build a controlled environment inside a perfectly build sandbox game and try to patch it up with another ridiculous idea when people raise an issue about it. The arena will never work because it destroys everything what EVE (my precious) as sandbox game stands for.

No we don't all love it. For the most part its bad for both sides of the equation.

For the blobbed you have 1) no chance 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) no fun at all

For the blobbed you have 1) no risk 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) its boring and completely unchallenging

Solo / small gang pvp needs to be improved drastically.

I posted this in another thread but Ill repeat it here. Yesterday I fitted up a T2 fitted blaster Mega. My intention was to get it exploded in Rancer as I had noticed a T3 Legion, T2 Oneiros and T1 Drake on a gate flashy red. It was a suicide mission but might still be fun. I jump into Rancer locked / scrammed the Legion, the Drake n logi docked, Legion jumped into next system and docked. 3 v 1 they refused to engage.

This morning I undocked in same Mega jumped from Rancer to Creleire or whatever its called same guy that was in Legion was camping in a Harbinger with a logi. I lock up the Harb start shooting him, not long I have about 10 Pandemic Legion dropped on me.

I don't care about the ship but I do care about the game and its currently pure shite when 3 vs 1 run from the 1 because of risk aversion and even 2 vs one they need to be able to drop 10 other ships on you before they'll engage in a fight.

Edit: actually I just noticed the PL guys helped kill the guy in the Harb so I guess they were just roaming in a girlie blob and ran into us already engaged.


Solo/small gang pvp needs to be improved by you in your mind. It is what you make of it.

If people don't want to engage you then you can't do much to change that that's what the sandbox is all about, if they don't want to take a change to loose a ship then why engage? (I understand it's frustrating), if people have a fleet and you take the bait then, you will probably die.

If your Megathron got caught on a belt by a pilgrim, falcon and a rapier and died slowly would you be angry then? If yes why? It was only 1v3, only that the game mechanics ensured that they will be safe no matter what ship you bring against them.

Nobody enjoys when they die, every loss gives us a particular information about a corp/alliance/system/tactics and more information like this make you a better pvp player.

If you think it needs to be improved because you don't kill anything and die all the time then you must be doing something wrong and change things. There is countless hours of evidence in form of pvp videos on youtube or evefiles that solo it's still possible, alive and bubbling with life. A lot of time these videos don't show you times when you get blobbed to hell (I don't put these fights in my videos either), which happens a lot.

Solo small gang was, is and (I hope) will remain extremely hard purely because of blobbing and people wanting an easy kill and not a good fight. Don't expect people to give you kills for free (it happens but not often). Purely for this reason I want to solo, I would never want it to be easy, because I'd loose the amazing feeling of victory against the odds.

If you knew you can win or loose fights at the start of the fight, EVE would loose one of the important things why I play the game and that's the adrenaline rush and not knowing what's coming.

Stop putting goddamn templates to something which is already perfect just because you are unlucky or don't have enough experience to find a good fight. I'm getting quite annoyed with this.

EDIT: Your avatar is sexy.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2013-09-17 14:03:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
wants solo pvp and jumps a battleship into Rancer


There might be other ways to go about finding engagements for solo pilots, but nothing wrong with your approach. Sandbox etc 07m8m8!

.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-09-20 08:46:25 UTC
Raptim Sicario wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Raptim Sicario wrote:
Dude why are you pushing up ideas and have no idea how solo/small scale PVP works. Some of your sentences even show you don't know how eve itself works. Maybe try some institution already in existence which support this kind of PVP before creating ridiculous ideas;

YES you will get blobbed
YES you will get falconized
YES you will get bubbled
YES you will die a lot
YES that's what it's all about
YES we all love it !

Your idea proves that you want to build a controlled environment inside a perfectly build sandbox game and try to patch it up with another ridiculous idea when people raise an issue about it. The arena will never work because it destroys everything what EVE (my precious) as sandbox game stands for.

No we don't all love it. For the most part its bad for both sides of the equation.

For the blobbed you have 1) no chance 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) no fun at all

For the blobbed you have 1) no risk 2) your fitting, skills, real life skills and ship invalidated by raw dps 3) its boring and completely unchallenging

Solo / small gang pvp needs to be improved drastically.

I posted this in another thread but Ill repeat it here. Yesterday I fitted up a T2 fitted blaster Mega. My intention was to get it exploded in Rancer as I had noticed a T3 Legion, T2 Oneiros and T1 Drake on a gate flashy red. It was a suicide mission but might still be fun. I jump into Rancer locked / scrammed the Legion, the Drake n logi docked, Legion jumped into next system and docked. 3 v 1 they refused to engage.

This morning I undocked in same Mega jumped from Rancer to Creleire or whatever its called same guy that was in Legion was camping in a Harbinger with a logi. I lock up the Harb start shooting him, not long I have about 10 Pandemic Legion dropped on me.

I don't care about the ship but I do care about the game and its currently pure shite when 3 vs 1 run from the 1 because of risk aversion and even 2 vs one they need to be able to drop 10 other ships on you before they'll engage in a fight.

Edit: actually I just noticed the PL guys helped kill the guy in the Harb so I guess they were just roaming in a girlie blob and ran into us already engaged.


Solo/small gang pvp needs to be improved by you in your mind. It is what you make of it.

If people don't want to engage you then you can't do much to change that that's what the sandbox is all about, if they don't want to take a change to loose a ship then why engage? (I understand it's frustrating), if people have a fleet and you take the bait then, you will probably die.

If your Megathron got caught on a belt by a pilgrim, falcon and a rapier and died slowly would you be angry then? If yes why? It was only 1v3, only that the game mechanics ensured that they will be safe no matter what ship you bring against them.

Nobody enjoys when they die, every loss gives us a particular information about a corp/alliance/system/tactics and more information like this make you a better pvp player.

If you think it needs to be improved because you don't kill anything and die all the time then you must be doing something wrong and change things. There is countless hours of evidence in form of pvp videos on youtube or evefiles that solo it's still possible, alive and bubbling with life. A lot of time these videos don't show you times when you get blobbed to hell (I don't put these fights in my videos either), which happens a lot.

Solo small gang was, is and (I hope) will remain extremely hard purely because of blobbing and people wanting an easy kill and not a good fight. Don't expect people to give you kills for free (it happens but not often). Purely for this reason I want to solo, I would never want it to be easy, because I'd loose the amazing feeling of victory against the odds.

If you knew you can win or loose fights at the start of the fight, EVE would loose one of the important things why I play the game and that's the adrenaline rush and not knowing what's coming.

Stop putting goddamn templates to something which is already perfect just because you are unlucky or don't have enough experience to find a good fight. I'm getting quite annoyed with this.

EDIT: Your avatar is sexy.

I think it's more to do with hot dropping. I took a Mega from Catch all the way up to Tenal, through Venal, down to Fountain, ridiculous number of jumps and didn't get engaged by single or even small groups I saw I think primarily because people assume it must be bait for a hot drop. I did have small fleets try to kill me.

I don't want it to become easy either but at the moment it's way too much of a time investment to be any longer worthwhile. A 3 vs 1 is not what I'm talking about btw, that's hardly a gank.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Raptim Sicario
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-09-20 12:59:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I think it's more to do with hot dropping. I took a Mega from Catch all the way up to Tenal, through Venal, down to Fountain, ridiculous number of jumps and didn't get engaged by single or even small groups I saw I think primarily because people assume it must be bait for a hot drop. I did have small fleets try to kill me.

I don't want it to become easy either but at the moment it's way too much of a time investment to be any longer worthwhile. A 3 vs 1 is not what I'm talking about btw, that's hardly a gank.


If you don't think its worth the time then don't do it. It is what it is.

Maybe try to use your map to see where activity is and don't roam empty systems and yes I guess megathron has a cyno breeze about it when seen solo.

Maybe try jumping into 0.0 entry systems next time, they usually work.

And roam more, it seems like you went on a solo roam once or twice which weren't successful roams and you automatically make an assumption that it doesn't work out, just try harder it's not easy.
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#18 - 2013-09-20 14:31:04 UTC
Take a look here :: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=277131

It is a recently locked thread on the same topic.

I will reiterate my thoughts below.

I have a few questions:

1) What matching algorithm do you suggest they implement to prevent well seasoned veterans from making new accounts and utterly dominating the newer players? (note, this makes it very disappointing to even try getting into the arena ) This is a common problem with arenas and match making systems in general and I have yet to see ANY game be really successful at it.

2) How would you suggest CCP handles faction fit ships? Two hulls with Meta 1 vs Meta 5+ are very very different ships but the skill requirement in generally the same. So two 'new' characters with similar skills but one bought 20 plex and faction fit like mad will always win out.

3) Travel time is important to keeping EvE 'large', if there was an instant queue for arena battles would you insta jump ( with ship and gear ) to the arena location? or would it be virtual and accessed from stations ( Oh and screw wormhole dwellers right?)

4) If this is a virtual arena environment, would Isk even be matter? or can everyone just fit whatever and jump in? Is there a cost to replace virtual ships and ammo? If not then why bother? The only thing to gain is so standing on some meaningless board somewhere that no one expect the people on it, would follow?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#19 - 2013-09-20 14:59:08 UTC
What about a better idea, as so many people wish to get people ratting in 0.0 for a fight, perhaps enabling a ship to have a limited re-fitting capability would allow the more aggresive ratter to take on the attacker, this will increase PvP significantly!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#20 - 2013-09-20 18:21:47 UTC
Sadly, re-fitting mid-fight would be detrimental to most small PvP.

Think Rock Paper scissors, except you get to use both hands instead of just one.

From what I can discern the primary reason people do not PvP is:

A) No interest at all. Non. Zero. Nada.
B) Lack of 'easy' targets ( see ganking )
C) No solo targets
D) OMG HOTDROP!! ( or fear thereof )

You need to fix these issues first, add better insurance options to cover modules and the like. Change FW sites to have 30km capture range and a 60km Web scram field, no more triple stab runners, gotta stay and fight.
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