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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3? First post First post
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Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#1141 - 2013-09-09 01:41:48 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Because the guys from the biggest alliance in nullsec are telling you that's wrong as hell, and that they, and their friends, and much of the line members of big alliances, make their money in highsec blitzing missions and running incursions and such.

Sure, let's make balancing decisions off this guy's opinion.

Why not?
He's part of a multi-thousand member organization, he must hold their accumulated knowledge himself!!

.

We got tech nerfed. We were the ones who pointed out the FW exploit to CCP, we were the ones who stopped titans online and supercaps online. We are the most active in ship balance testing.

Our organisation has the best track record for pushing for things for the betterment of the game. Hell half the time we are nerfing ourselves.

If I recall right, next on the chopping block is drone assist, yes?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

GoonWaffe 6,953
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Likes received: 6,953	#1142 - 2013-09-09 01:44:16 UTC 1 Yeah, what happened to our drone assist doctrine anyway, I thought we were going to start using one due to how nice they are Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Bat Country Pandemic Horde 19,001
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#1143 - 2013-09-09 01:49:40 UTC 1 Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, what happened to our drone assist doctrine anyway, I thought we were going to start using one due to how nice they are We accidently seiged all of Delve again so it got delayed.


Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Likes received: 6,953	#1144 - 2013-09-09 01:56:12 UTC 1 Eh well it seems BL and Solar are shooting people in Querious so I guess our blobs won't be too busy. Except for shooting structures Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

La Nariz

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,228

#1145 - 2013-09-09 03:04:29 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Sure, let's make balancing decisions off this guy's opinion.

Why not?
He's part of a multi-thousand member organization, he must hold their accumulated knowledge himself!!

.

Don't forget that two of our members guided the most successful CSM in EVE history. Highsec has put out wonders such as Jade Constantine, no one should be surprised when highsec has no idea what to do but scream against things not favoring it.

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Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#1146 - 2013-09-09 03:15:35 UTC | Edited by: Alavaria Fera

La Nariz wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Xenuria

I admit I thought all was lost when the geniuses who are Baki "Sell me your stuffs" Yuku and Gevlon "Your isk per hour" Goblin were on the TEST side.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

La Nariz

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,228

#1147 - 2013-09-09 03:16:05 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

La Nariz wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Xenuria

He(?) who shall not be named.

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stoicfaux

Likes received: 6,283

#1148 - 2013-09-09 04:32:47 UTC | Edited by: stoicfaux

To get back on topic, i.e. that level 3's don't pay enough compared to 4s.

Just ran a hour's worth of level 3s, and ...... oh my. At 700 isk/lp conversion, I averaged ~30 million isk in generated assets (42% LP, 20% bounties, 38% rewards, no salvage, no loot.) At 2,000 isk/lp, that's ~50 million isk in generated assets.
edit: fixed percentages

Travel time is a real killer. 1h08m total breaking down into 27m travel time and 41m of actual mission time. 12 missions.

This was a casual mix of blitzing and killing everything using a sentry Ishtar. Low-sec and faction missions were declined, i.e. multiple declines per 4 hour block by relying on faction standings.

So if you're a l33t carebear Bear

mission runner, i.e. you can convert LP and cherry pick missions, then level 3s are probably competitive with level 4s. Obviously, small sample size and all, but still, if you can find a couple of level 3 agents in the same station and cut down on the travel time...

[Ishtar, Level 3 runner]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S

Medium Drone Scope Chip I
Medium Drone Scope Chip I

Garde II x5
Hobgoblin II x10
Garde II x2
Ogre II x5
Ogre II x1

edit2: At 700isk/lp:
42% LP = 12.6M
20% bounties = 6.0M
38% rewards = 11.4M
That's ~17M in liquid isk. Which is double what the OP claimed you could make in level 3s, not counting LP conversion.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Frostys Virpio

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,464

#1149 - 2013-09-09 04:35:43 UTC

stoicfaux wrote:

To get back on topic, i.e. that level 3's don't pay enough compared to 4s.

Just ran a hour's worth of level 3s, and ...... oh my. At 700 isk/lp conversion, I averaged ~30 million isk in generated assets (42% LP, 16% bounties, 36% rewards, no salvage, no loot.) At 2,000 isk/lp, that's ~50 million isk in generated assets.

Travel time is a real killer. 1h08m total breaking down into 27m travel time and 41m of actual mission time. 12 missions.

This was a casual mix of blitzing and killing everything using a sentry Ishtar. Low-sec and faction missions were declined, i.e. multiple declines per 4 hour block by relying on faction standings.

So if you're a l33t carebear Bear

So basicly, since no-one from the "nerf lvl 4" side said lvl 3 were out fo wack, it emans the only thing we can really nerf is teh LP store income because thats what push things out of balance?

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#1150 - 2013-09-09 04:48:54 UTC

Frostys Virpio wrote:

So basicly, since no-one from the "nerf lvl 4" side said lvl 3 were out fo wack, it emans the only thing we can really nerf is teh LP store income because thats what push things out of balance?

Just make a bunch of things from the LP store cost isk, which will make life painful

Frostys Virpio

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,464

#1151 - 2013-09-09 04:52:13 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Frostys Virpio wrote:

So basicly, since no-one from the "nerf lvl 4" side said lvl 3 were out fo wack, it emans the only thing we can really nerf is teh LP store income because thats what push things out of balance?

Just make a bunch of things from the LP store cost isk, which will make life painful

Won;t people just raise the price they sell the item for to balance out?


Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Likes received: 6,953	#1152 - 2013-09-09 04:58:04 UTC Depends. Generally they cannot pass on all of the cost increase. Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Onictus

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 952

#1153 - 2013-09-09 05:22:35 UTC

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Yawn, I've provided facts and I've been out today,

You mean the ones where you failed to list what ship you used, what mission you did what you earned in each of those missions and how long it took you to do them?

Right now we are the only ones to have posted any facts and figures.

I've previously posted those, I deliberately held back on the ship I chose for the very obvious reason that you guys would try and use it as a shield for your lies. I mentioned that it was T1 with all T2 fittings and typical of what mission runners tend to fly based on my own experience of missioning in busy hubs. Whatever I had picked, be it a Golem or a CNR, space potato etc, etc, would have been to support your falicious argument as you'd naturally claim it was the wrong ship, or the wrong fit or whatever suits your mood.

I gave you the mission times, the isk earned, the loyalty points earned, the loot salvaged etc, etc, etc. I've read every post in this thread and I've yet to see any facts from you even the ones you claimed you filled the thread up with when I was out and about this afternoon.

Except that every mission hub in the game had a steady stream of CNR, SNIs machs, rattlers, and Tengus rolling in and out 23/7. All of them.

And low skilled players shouldn't be the focus, nor singleton account holders, my experience would say that most players have more than a single account. Certainly the low and null set tend to average three I think. I don't remember that being much different in empire, people often had their own personal mining fleet aside from a PvP character that they roamed with

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#1154 - 2013-09-09 06:31:25 UTC

Onictus wrote:

Except that every mission hub in the game had a steady stream of CNR, SNIs machs, rattlers, and Tengus rolling in and out 23/7. All of them.

Highsec is a land of prosperity

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#1155 - 2013-09-09 06:56:03 UTC | Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha

baltec1 wrote:

Loot nerfs also happened in null.

AI changes also happened in null.

L5s were intended to be low sec in the first place.

Tippia in this case would school you about how you are moving your goals. YOU stated the 8 years blah blah null nerfed blah blah, high sec NONE.

None= just false. That's it, no way to flip around that.

Let's see if Jenny Aside will come and preach against you as "liar" like she did with me. Lol

That will also show if / how much she's biased.

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Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting Likes received: 5,809	#1156 - 2013-09-09 06:59:03 UTC 1 baltec1 wrote: As for mission income nerfs. 30% reduction in income from level 4s max, 20% should do the trick. Pretty please show how reducing income per hour from say 50M per hour to 40M would suddenly make you want to grind PvE in null sec and not in high sec. EvE Online portal \| EvE markets tutorials

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

Likes received: 4,252

#1157 - 2013-09-09 06:59:33 UTC | Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

Frankly, I've lost the thread here. What are we discussing now?

It's been shown that most income from missions are not ISK faucets (LP store is a ISK sink, loot & salvage just recirculate existing money). So no, Lvl 4s are not damaging the economy any more than other faucets.

Then there's a crazy debate on wether Lvl 4 pay too much compared to Lvl 3, or Lvl 3 pay too few. Comparing ship, skills and time spent, it's sensible that the easier to access missions also reward less. But then, missions in general also reward skills. I ran 12 Lvl 2s in one day, averaging some 10 minutes each undock-to-dock -but that's because I've spent millions upon millions of SP in optimizing my Lvl4s, and didn't bother with loot/salvage. Running Lvl 3, my skills have allowed me to spare costs (ran them in a cuiser as didn't had any BC nor wanted to spend ISK acquiring it). Once again, I've been "rewarded" for my investment of RL money spent skilling up. What's wrong with that? Why should someone who only invested a couple months, earn almost the same as I after a year skilling up for Lvl 4s?

Then some just point out that people playing the game in a different way, should be nerfed because of rabble rabble...

And I no longer know who is discussing what nor why. Shocked

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#1158 - 2013-09-09 07:00:53 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Frostys Virpio wrote:

So basicly, since no-one from the "nerf lvl 4" side said lvl 3 were out fo wack, it emans the only thing we can really nerf is teh LP store income because thats what push things out of balance?

Just make a bunch of things from the LP store cost isk, which will make life painful

The valuable mods do cost ISK in addition to LP...

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