Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Unfortunately, this discounts the possibility that they are using counter cloaking tactics in conjunction with a gate camp.
If the ship was faster to align and warp, that might work, but the ship gives too much opportunity to inties dragging drones across where they saw you blip momentarily.

Perception must expect success, before the idea holds popular merit.

I like this idea. Either a MJD or a warp bubble nullifier. Love it!

Ok, let me put this in terms meaningful to what the goal is.

Goal: Make the DST a viable alternative to the BR, including the consideration that the DST has more cargo capacity.

Why is the BR successful? Minimum full exposure time, followed by limited concealed period while leaving a gate area.
Are any of these overkill, and therefore not needed as points for the DST?
No. The BR, while challenging to catch, has a reasonable chance of success in the hands of a skilled pilot.
We want exactly that, a reasonable chance of success, but using different mechanics.

I have heard cyno jumping and MJD suggested.

I believe either can work.

MJD version:
The ship has a nearly instant spool time for first use of a MJD, then again every 45 seconds.
After 45 seconds from a previous use, the ship's special internal capacitor will be recharged, allowing it to instantly MJD use again.
Counters to this: If anticipated, long range DPS can be fielded, as well as scrambler equipped inties.
Comparison to the BR: Nearly identical challenge level achieved by different means. Both require expectation to prepare for, neither is an overwhelming burden to a gate camp.

Cyno version:
Like the BLOPs, this ship has a limited jump range. 3.5 ly (same as BLOPs base range)
(for reference, a JF has a base 5 ly range)
This makes it less useful than a JF in range, and cargo capacity.
Considering the BLOPs uses a covert cyno, rather than the beacon creating "come-hither" cyno used by JFs and likely this version too, it will be considerably more challenging to move than a BLOPs as a result.

I would find either a useful means of bring the DST actually into 'DS'.

A couple of things need to happen to revitalize T2 industrials.

1. Blockade Runners are fine, but for low-volume high-value goods they do not compare to a cloaky-nullified T3.

The solution: get rid of cloaky-nully T3's. Make them either or, not both.

2. DST's are not survivable enough. Give them nullification and MJD. If you use one unscouted, you can get through a drag bubble, but they have a chance at you with a dictor on the other side. You use the MJD to escape. Now they have to have scrams as well. A well-manned gate camp can catch you, but a bad one cannot. That is fair and balanced. No ship should be able to escape a well-prepared gate camp with ease.

DST immune to all forms of ewar. balanced and useful.

Well, as happy as I would be with DSTs having that much strength, I have to admit that it would be fairly OP to have both bonuses. Also, both T2 haulers need an increase to cargo space, especially if anyone is going to try to compete with the special hauler-fit T3s.

The +2 to warp core strength, already makes the DST immune to a single warp disruptor or scrambler, thus making it immune to being caught by your typical solo tackler. I've seen it used to great effect for PI in null and w-space. Removing that bonus would make the DST completely pointless.

The BR already has covert cloak. So no to that as well.

DST can fit a very nice buffer+MAAR with resist mod, and still have 3 open slots for cargohold expanders. Use your rig slots for trimarks to make up the difference from the lost structure EHP. For mids go with MWD and cap booster or multispec ECM. Throw a small nos in the final high to help with cap some more. Or go for a cloak for getting safe.

DST is fine the way it is. People don't realize how good it is. Its biggest vulnerability is to warp bubbles.

The use in PI, those are likely short range trips aren't they? Maybe one or two systems away from the home system? If that is the case, then you already face a problem where one of the new Industrials in Odyssey 1.1 can easily replace the DST, the Epithal. Because the lows will no longer affect its cargo capacity, it also can have the +2 Warp core strength through using WCS in the lows. The tanks for them have also been doubled in most cases and they have all been given enough CPU and Powergrid to even be armed. So, we are back to square one in this regard for the DST because that new industrial will be WAY cheaper to buy, far easier to replace, and faster to train for than any DST.

Going back to Rune's idea of having a MJD bonus, while again its not a bad idea, I am just not convinced that people will change over to using one for null-sec and low-sec runs. The only reason why people use Blockade Runners is that a.) They are the only reasonably option to move your own cargo, b.) Because of their Cov Ops cloak (which includes the ability to warp away while cloaked) allows for a reasonable level of success.

This is where I think having the DST be cyno capable (The Blockade Runner is covert cyno capable) would give people that option. Got a buddy, well then you can risk losing a 200mil ship and a cyno ship getting equipment up to your home station. With a 6 billion isk JF on the other hand.. you wait until the stars are in alignment as well as any other voodoo you can do before you make the trek.

If the MJD bonus were to happen (and please Devs, would LOVE to hear you comments on this right about now), you'd absolutely have to have a massive bonus to spool-up time (be able to use the MJD again in under 15-20 seconds, IMO). You'd also have to drastically improve the agility of the ship as well. It would need a boost to cargo space.. but this is probably the catcher because too much cargo space would make people rethink about using a JF instead (based on cargo value). Then you have to way the fact of how long a trip would take. Typically a trip from a trade hub to a null-sec station probably ranges between 15 and 20 jumps... are you willing to risk a ship in null-sec/low-sec space for an hour one way in a ship that might be able to carry a single cruiser?

True, the DST could certainly use an agility buff. Still, with both the +2 warp and Nullifier bonus, the Improved cloak + MWD would be enough to handle most camps without having to resort to a straight up Covert Ops cloak.

The other thing (may have been mentioned) that really needs to happen is the cargo bay needs removing from the low slots.
Make it a special bay. Make cargo rigs affect the special bays even, heck.
And then you make actually armour tanking an industrial viable. Being forced to shield tank the armour races is just annoying and removes any kind of viable fittings because they spend too much time worrying about the low slot cargo extenders & how they might break the game.
This should be done to all Industrials really. As it then gives the players decent options without completely ripping apart their cargo capacity. If my maths is right, something like 75% of cargo capacity is low slots + rigs. That's just silly