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Reasons people don't go into LoSec (D-scan issues)
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#61 - 2013-09-07 07:39:23 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Also, I'm looking forward to having scan probes on all ships, to equal the utility of D-Scan.

I don't really understand why combat probes require so much CPU to use. I can't understand the reasoning behind that.


To make me have to titter from afar while my corpies gank ****. Only reason I can think of.

Then again, some of the best kills don't even require combat probes. It's amazing how many people don't even notice you landing outside the a-gate to their ded plex, much less the core probes you used to scan it down.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-09-07 07:45:39 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down.


What better reason could there be? Or you prefer simplicity at the cost of balance, meaning there is less reason to play in the first place?

a better or replacement dscan (even one with some kind of autorepeat) could be both not-awful to use and balanced if designed properly, i'd hope

although just slapping an autorepeat function on the current dscan would be a bit much. i think the current design should be chucked out, anyway

also i remember reading something about a dev saying the current click, click, click system wasn't too good in terms of server traffic?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-09-07 07:47:59 UTC
oh. and probes might have been originally intended to fit on larger ships only? they only have one size. if they were more fittable, they'd make an interesting choice for utility highslots instead of just 'fit a neut' as it is currently
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#64 - 2013-09-07 08:22:47 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Then again, some of the best kills don't even require combat probes. It's amazing how many people don't even notice you landing outside the a-gate to their ded plex, much less the core probes you used to scan it down.


Believe it or not, plexes tend to require some amount of attention.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#65 - 2013-09-07 09:19:36 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down.


What better reason could there be? Or you prefer simplicity at the cost of balance, meaning there is less reason to play in the first place?

a better or replacement dscan (even one with some kind of autorepeat) could be both not-awful to use and balanced if designed properly, i'd hope

although just slapping an autorepeat function on the current dscan would be a bit much. i think the current design should be chucked out, anyway

also i remember reading something about a dev saying the current click, click, click system wasn't too good in terms of server traffic?


Haha, no wonder they didn't want people living in wormholes!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#66 - 2013-09-07 09:55:54 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
But the PROBLEM with D-scan is the mind numbing stupid "feature" of clicking it every 2 seconds. I can't think of a worse gameplay feature than clicking a button every 2 seconds. Its ANNOYING, and not worth it when you can earn money in Hi-Sec without having to use this stupid D-scan.


Try wormhole space. You don't have local to tell you when to start clicking. You have to click around the clock while doing anything, and these days half the stuff you're doing you don't even get probes as a warning. The guy just warps to you cloaked and BAM, you're screwed.

An auto-Dscan would be wonderful CCP. Please consider making this! Would certainly prove useful when you finally get around to getting rid of local in nullsec. P

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#67 - 2013-09-07 10:28:06 UTC
#1, this belongs in Features and Ideas, not GD. So you have that against you from the outset.

#2, ten kinds of hell no. Firstly, implementing this for everyone, everywhere to get feedback from the server on a constant basis (whether they are using it or not) would create lag. Lag on a level that would stand to virtually eliminate anything close to a large scale battle. If people thought the whole "remapping the node" fiasco was bad...

And furthermore, D-scan, and having to use it, is not why people do not go into lowsec. Sure, it's part of the "but it's too haaaaard!" cries of the perennial victims. But it's far from the only cause.

And lastly, is it that hard to push a button now and then? Really? Half the damn game is automated already, and you want just that little bit more, and that's where it ends we promise? Yeah, not buying it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-09-08 06:44:18 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down.


What better reason could there be? Or you prefer simplicity at the cost of balance, meaning there is less reason to play in the first place?



It's better to say the truth or something more believable like "it creates too much server traffic". This has nothing to do with game balance, we're talking about upgrading an obsolete system.

Maybe replacing D-scan with something else that does the same thing but better is required to fix this.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#69 - 2013-09-08 06:48:22 UTC
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down.


What better reason could there be? Or you prefer simplicity at the cost of balance, meaning there is less reason to play in the first place?



It's better to say the truth or something more believable like "it creates too much server traffic". This has nothing to do with game balance, we're talking about upgrading an obsolete system.

Maybe replacing D-scan with something else that does the same thing but better is required to fix this.


It returns feedback in real time.

It will cause lag. That's really the end of it, unless the destruction of EVE as a stable gaming platform is your goal.

It cannot be "on at all times".

Besides that, proper use of D-scan really does help to separate the wheat from the chaff. Which is not a bad thing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#70 - 2013-09-08 07:14:56 UTC
Conrad Makbure wrote:
This has nothing to do with game balance, we're talking about upgrading an obsolete system.

Maybe replacing D-scan with something else that does the same thing but better is required to fix this.


Really? There are plenty of mechanics which are completely unrealistic for such an advanced time period but preserved for game balance:

1. Probing (as though a computer wouldn't do this).
2. Manual piloting (i.e. why doesn't my ship just maintain an optimal vector for my guns?)
3. Manually updating market orders.
4. Mining.
5. Sorting local by standings.
6. Ice mining (I just felt this deserved a special mention).
7. Not being able to configure your ship however you want (e.g. custom slot layouts).

And the list goes on. Not everything manual should be 'upgraded', even if it would be realistic.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#71 - 2013-09-08 08:44:10 UTC
remove local, make it so that when you ping d-scan you show automatically on everyone else's d-scan.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#72 - 2013-09-08 10:23:02 UTC
Sorry OP but I just dont belive that D-scan is the reason people dont go to low sec.

Like many pointed out already d-scan needs overheaul. Infact I would love to see somekind of Local+D-scan overhaul where two becomes one. But currently I am out of ideas how to do that... and out of coffee... >.>

I belive its more image that we as community paint about low, 0.0 or WH that keeps most newbies away from those places. While most of us know for fact that its not that "scary" to be in those sectors. But even image painting is just small part of all reasons why people chose to stay in high sec and I dont hate them for that. I park my proteus in Dodixie after weeks of roaming low/null or WHs just because I can chill a bit there and sell my stuff for best profit. Bear
WhipDiddyWhip
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#73 - 2013-09-08 10:36:25 UTC
d scan is fine

ppl will be asking for an auto scanning d scanner next, put some effort in, clicking the button is not hard
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#74 - 2013-09-08 10:46:28 UTC
D-Scan is your only defense?
How about ripping your attacker's head off when he is stupid enough to show up on grid.
You need to fight to excel in Low-sec.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#75 - 2013-09-08 10:51:42 UTC
Conrad Makbure wrote:
It's better to say the truth or something more believable like "it creates too much server traffic".


some years ago D-Scan was used to work with no cooldown.

CCP had to add a delay just becuase large groups spamming it in a system were a major reason of lag. And some groups was used to do it on purpose to cause lag in the system.


Beside this: personally I like the current D-Scan, when you used to it it tells you stories about the system.
May have some little graphic improvement, but I hope will never changed.

Even becuase the last CCP changes are about destroying things to make them idiotic and trivial (see the last exploration/probing changes)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-09-08 14:20:34 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Conrad Makbure wrote:
This has nothing to do with game balance, we're talking about upgrading an obsolete system.

Maybe replacing D-scan with something else that does the same thing but better is required to fix this.


Really? There are plenty of mechanics which are completely unrealistic for such an advanced time period but preserved for game balance:

1. Probing (as though a computer wouldn't do this).
2. Manual piloting (i.e. why doesn't my ship just maintain an optimal vector for my guns?)
3. Manually updating market orders.
4. Mining.
5. Sorting local by standings.
6. Ice mining (I just felt this deserved a special mention).
7. Not being able to configure your ship however you want (e.g. custom slot layouts).

And the list goes on. Not everything manual should be 'upgraded', even if it would be realistic.

he said nothing about realism. 'obsolete' is the wrong word, though, as dscan is still functional in its current form, just unfun to clickclickclick

i don't care about how well the scanner is balanced currently. it actually doesn't matter, if you think about it. i care that it's horrid to use, and i have to use it all the time. if it can be replaced with a not-bad, balanced scanner, noone will miss it
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#77 - 2013-09-08 14:32:19 UTC
lowsec is gonna stay so stop trying to convince CCP to remove it.
Lady Areola Fappington
#78 - 2013-09-08 14:42:00 UTC
To me, Dscan feels kinda....crufty, and "old EVE". It could stand an overhaul. Situational awareness is something that keeps some folks from venturing into low and null, so a basic "automatic" scan could help with nudging folks in. Give the illusion of more safety, while leaving skilled use needed to be effective.

The big issue I have with the current Dscan is that it's needlessly complex. Nobody deals with km off-grid, so why use that as distance measurement. It's not really obvious that the angle measurement is based off your camera. Basically, Dscan is something someone else tells you exactly how to use.


My fix idea would be, use that nifty in-space thingee anoms and sigs have now. Like a current day radar, select a "band" outside your ship (example, 250km to .25AU, .25 to .50, .5o to 1AU, you get the drift). You run a dscan, it pings with a "something" in that band. You start narrowing your scan cone, get more information, till you nail down what it is and it's direction. Add in to that some on-screen indicators of your scan cone angle, and you have something neat, at least in my books.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#79 - 2013-09-08 15:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Why people avoids lowsec?

Because of risk. Risk costs time. Time is precious. Avoiding risk is the only way to use your time proficently.

And so players avoid risk and either stay in hisec or go nullsec.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#80 - 2013-09-08 15:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: MeestaPenni
[u wrote:
Mr Pragmatic[/u]]I don't go into low sec because its full of space turds.



Strikes again.





Please refer to the above for an example of really bad posting.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.