These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Charon prizes?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2013-09-07 20:57:21 UTC
What's up with Freighter prizes? A few weeks ago, Charon was at 1.35 billion p/u in Jita, now it's close to 1.15 billion.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-07 20:58:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
I wanna Charon prize, where can I get one?


Supply>Demand
Rengerel en Distel
#3 - 2013-09-07 22:45:50 UTC
A charon prize is what the gankers call a loot pinata charon, right?
As for the price, i'd say all ships generally settle around the production cost, because undercutters just wanna sell, profit means nothing to the MIMAF crowd.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#4 - 2013-09-08 00:07:31 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
A charon prize is what the gankers call a loot pinata charon, right?
As for the price, i'd say all ships generally settle around the production cost, because undercutters just wanna sell, profit means nothing to the MIMAF crowd.


But can the MIMAF crowd actually amass enough minerals to build Freighters? Let alone amass enough ISK profit to be able to buy the component BPOs and then the hull BPO? I looked, last year, and those BPOs are expensive.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2013-09-08 01:25:56 UTC
Salpad wrote:
What's up with Freighter prizes? A few weeks ago, Charon was at 1.35 billion p/u in Jita, now it's close to 1.15 billion.

The recent cache scraping change with Odyssey 1.1 has market sites like EVE-Central offline, so a lot of traders / manufacturers can't update their spreadsheets automatically.

Of course, I manually update my spreadsheets. Only takes a few minutes.

I own 6 Charons. I think they cost me about 700m each when I built them.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-08 06:25:41 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The recent cache scraping change with Odyssey 1.1 has market sites like EVE-Central offline, so a lot of traders / manufacturers can't update their spreadsheets automatically.


That was an annoying breaking change. Spreadsheets were easy enough to update manually, asset calculator not so much.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#7 - 2013-09-08 09:28:38 UTC
Salpad wrote:
What's up with Freighter prizes? A few weeks ago, Charon was at 1.35 billion p/u in Jita, now it's close to 1.15 billion.


Is the build cost for the Charon & the Fenrir the same? If so then selling a Charon for 1.15 billion is a little less than selling the minerals used to construct a freighter. I did the maths the other day based on mining all the minerals except the Megacyte & Zydrine based on 150 ME part BPOs and a 5/1 Fenrir BPO. By selling at that price you are throwing the profit of 200 million down the drain and ruining the market.

Sounds typical of the MIMAF crowd. Unfortunately the 8 billion ISK required to buy the set of BPOs needed is probably within their reach. Sad

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-09-08 15:27:26 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Salpad wrote:
What's up with Freighter prizes? A few weeks ago, Charon was at 1.35 billion p/u in Jita, now it's close to 1.15 billion.


Is the build cost for the Charon & the Fenrir the same? If so then selling a Charon for 1.15 billion is a little less than selling the minerals used to construct a freighter. I did the maths the other day based on mining all the minerals except the Megacyte & Zydrine based on 150 ME part BPOs and a 5/1 Fenrir BPO. By selling at that price you are throwing the profit of 200 million down the drain and ruining the market.

Sounds typical of the MIMAF crowd. Unfortunately the 8 billion ISK required to buy the set of BPOs needed is probably within their reach. Sad


Freighters require different amounts of the 4 capital parts and therefore differ in price as well:

ME 2 Charon: 1.073b
ME 2 Providence: 1.054b
ME 2 Fenrir: 1.032b
ME 2 Obelisk: 1.049b

(ME 50 on the Cap Parts)

Keep in mind that minerals got cheaper quite a bit.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#9 - 2013-09-09 14:44:54 UTC
Salpad wrote:
What's up with Freighter prizes? A few weeks ago, Charon was at 1.35 billion p/u in Jita, now it's close to 1.15 billion.

freighters have long build times, so the ones built after the mineral prices dropped are just hitting the market now.

Freighters take a lot of minerals to build, so their value is very sensitive to mineral prices.
Chic Botany
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-09-09 18:58:48 UTC
As others say, the time taken to build a freighter

Components roughly 7 days depending on how many blueprints you've got
Then a good 10 days to build the freighter, so you're finally selling your freighter 17-18 days after you bought the minerals

This is why it's always a hairy time building them when the mineral prices are fluctuating so much. You could get lucky, you could lose out, or you can just stick it on the market and eventually mineral prices will rise again a bit so it will meet the market price (this is ok if you've got a spare billion isk going begging that you're not bothered about a quick return)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#11 - 2013-09-10 02:26:20 UTC
Chic Botany wrote:
As others say, the time taken to build a freighter

Components roughly 7 days depending on how many blueprints you've got
Then a good 10 days to build the freighter, so you're finally selling your freighter 17-18 days after you bought the minerals

This is why it's always a hairy time building them when the mineral prices are fluctuating so much. You could get lucky, you could lose out, or you can just stick it on the market and eventually mineral prices will rise again a bit so it will meet the market price (this is ok if you've got a spare billion isk going begging that you're not bothered about a quick return)


If I were building Charons, if I had built some that I felt like sitting on for a while, in the hope that prices would rise, then I'd stockpile them and not put them up for sale.

My hypothesis is that if I have something I want to sell, and the item is scarce or semi-scarce, and I put one or several such items up for sale at a "high waiting price" (rather than at a "competetive price"), then I create a "perception of abundance", which affects the market negatively from how I'd like it affected. I think it's better if the market can't "see" my stockpile.

Does that make any sense? Does it seem like a sound hypothesis, or is it silly?
LocaI Spike
Advanced Cyno Generation and Blobbing
#12 - 2013-09-10 07:52:16 UTC
The problem is that unless minerals rise again the price is very unlikely to rise again. Why? Because a lot of people can build freighters and many highsec only industrials consider them their top goal since it is a highsec-capital. And 7b ISK for the prints is not a lot these days.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#13 - 2013-09-11 00:20:11 UTC
LocaI Spike wrote:
The problem is that unless minerals rise again the price is very unlikely to rise again. Why? Because a lot of people can build freighters and many highsec only industrials consider them their top goal since it is a highsec-capital. And 7b ISK for the prints is not a lot these days.


I see that, but what do you think about my "perception of abundance" hypothesis?
Rengerel en Distel
#14 - 2013-09-11 01:33:08 UTC
Salpad wrote:
LocaI Spike wrote:
The problem is that unless minerals rise again the price is very unlikely to rise again. Why? Because a lot of people can build freighters and many highsec only industrials consider them their top goal since it is a highsec-capital. And 7b ISK for the prints is not a lot these days.


I see that, but what do you think about my "perception of abundance" hypothesis?


If you can actually have something that's scarce or semi-scarce, it'd be a good plan. Charons aren't one of those things.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Tamarana
C.L.A.W.
#15 - 2013-09-11 19:25:08 UTC
Current profitability of Charon and the other freighters is, indeed, very low compared with normal times.
This if you take the sell prices of minerals at Jita.
A couple of types of freighters, now, are not worth to be built.

Many builders, I suppose, build using tritanium (mainly) bought elsewhere (like peripheral systems where Tritanium is a lot cheaper).

Another problem with profitability is the current increase in prices of minerals.
If you have an increase in prices of minerals, you could not be able to sell a freighter high enough to buy back the minerals needed to build the next and have a profit, because others are selling at a month old price at a loss.

The correct way to compute the profitability is

Sell the charon And buy the minerals (immediately).
If you have more isk after this you have a real profit, if not you have a real loss.
LocaI Spike
Advanced Cyno Generation and Blobbing
#16 - 2013-09-12 10:31:53 UTC
Salpad wrote:
LocaI Spike wrote:
The problem is that unless minerals rise again the price is very unlikely to rise again. Why? Because a lot of people can build freighters and many highsec only industrials consider them their top goal since it is a highsec-capital. And 7b ISK for the prints is not a lot these days.


I see that, but what do you think about my "perception of abundance" hypothesis?


I think the opposite is true: If there is a lot of Charons at say 1.2b and they are now selling at 1.1b some people will think that its just some fricking my own minerals are free people selling and you can hope that people do not undercut that 1.1b guy because this would actually make 1.1b the real price.

BUT (big but) as the poster below you mentioned, this only works for rare items. Freighters, although they require like 7b ISK (for being able to manufacture one type of freighter) are not exactly produced only by a few people, mainly because 7b ISK is nothing nowadays.

Tamarana wrote:


The correct way to compute the profitability is

Sell the charon And buy the minerals (immediately).
If you have more isk after this you have a real profit, if not you have a real loss.


Yes, most people mistake trade profits with manufacturing profits.