Ships & Modules

So the Corax is a Rocket and Light Missile boat, just by going from it's bonuses and high slots. Therefore, it should be able to use both Rockets and Light Missiles in PvP combat. The baseline for PvP is a full rack of T2 guns and a prop mod. In this case, a 1MN MWD because the Corax is the slowest Destroyer out there, and still only goes 1400ms with a MWD.



The Light Missile Corax, however, has terrible fitting. 60 PGU
http://imgur.com/6wnsbnq

It has less than ONE PG left after fitting 7 LML II's and a Limited 1MN MWD. You can't fit any other modules that require PG without a fitting rig or module. The Corax NEEDS at least 3-4 more PGU so it can fill the rest of it's medium slots and one of it's low slots without having to resort to losing a module/rig to fitting.

Before people start ranting about how range comes at a price, and about how you shouldn't be able to fit both long range weapons with speed or tank without some sort of drawback.... let's take a look at the other long range destroyers.

150mm Railgun II Cormorant.
http://imgur.com/KFOqTUm
Full set of 7 T2 Railguns, MWD, and SEVEN PG left over.

150mm Railgun II Catalyst.
http://imgur.com/aAWK5Ul
7 T2 Railguns, MWD and 7.75 PG left over. If you decide to go for all eight Railgun IIs, you will have less than one PGU left over, but you get 8 guns on your destroyer compared to every other destroyer that gets a maximum of 7.

250mm Arty Thrasher
http://imgur.com/j8VjJ7J
Full set of T2 250mm Arties, MWD and over 10 PG left over.

Even the other LML Destroyer can fit everything without going over PGU.
LML Talwar
http://imgur.com/psFSrtv
The other LML Destroyer, has 63.75 PGU, which effectively let's the Talwar be fit with a full set of modules and rigs PG-wise. I just threw that fit together to show that you can fit everything with a prop mod and a full set of LML II's.



There should be no reason why the Corax is the only destroyer that cannot fit long range guns, a prop mod, and the rest of it's modules without using a fitting rig or module. It only needs 3-4 more PG in order to fit everything and not be gimped compared to all of the other ships in its clas.

While this is true, the Corax does have an abnormally small amount of PG for a Destroyer - it barely has more PG AND CPU than a Kestrel:

Kestrel:
PG: 45
CPU: 180
Total slot count: 10

Corax
PG: 48
CPU: 210
Total slot count: 13

The Corax has 3 more slots to fill but only an extra 3 PG and 30 CPU to do it with? It doesn't add up, yes you can still fit it and use it (I love the thing) but it definitely got shortchanged on fittings.

Agreed. It could use some more PG. Ancillary current router is hardly the balancing solution as everyone prefers the nimble talwar anyhow; corax needs the PG to get tanky-ganky fits off. Launchers and MSE or MASB.

Talwar would still be preferable for most things but at least this corax would have its place. I guess 10MN fits might emerge if too much pg is given though :)

The Corax sucks, and always has because of the issues outlined by the OP. I would support it getting another 6 PG, which would let it fit a full rack of LML's, a MWD and fill its lows with BCU's and have a whopping 4 PG left over for tank, point. It's hardly going to be OP as a glass cannon LML kite ship.

Hm. proof it is you need?

Corax. 2:1 ratio and 2K used (and falling)

Talwar. 10:1 ratio and 20K used

Dragoon 3:1 ratio but only 2K/mo

Algos 3:1 kill:loss ratio, 7500/mo

Catalyst 3:1 ratio, 10K/mo (OK, OK, all suicide ganking but still)

Thrasher still the king. 4:1 ratio, 40K/mo.

Cormorant - 4.5:1 and 7,500/mo.

Coercer - 2.5:1 and 5K/mo.

What does this all show?

#1 - the Corax is the least used.
#2 - the Corax is just edging the Coerceer out for least survivable. Given the Coercer has less mids and more DPS it is interesting because the Coercer is typically a gank dessie in FW plexes. What's the Corax good at? Dying?
#3 - the Talwar fleets you see work because of the ship's decent mobility, decent damage projection and cheapness. they are like mini-Tengus
#4 - the Thrasher is still king of popularity but it's losing ground to the Talwar. Winmatar, clearly.

one can infer from these facts that the Corax needs a buff. The likely reason it is dying is the lack of DPS and tank and DPS projection. You can make a decent rocket gank Corax but so too you can make a rocket gank Talwar. Except, why would you when you can LML and kite with the Talwar? The Corax...punching bag.

The Dragoon is unpopular because it's too slow and a neut-drone platform subject to kitey frigs is just a slow way to die.

There you go. QED.

Why would you ever not go for eight guns on a Catalyst?

For as long as I can remember, the recommendation for the rail Cat' has been to fit it with 125mm Rails. It's a fitting compromise...
There are very few ships where the choices you have are really minimal, where there is a single, obvious, "designed in" fitting which will work.

Nonetheless I do see a difference between the Corax and most of the other Destroyers. There is no "lower tier" version of the Standard Launcher to which you can downgrade; no 125mm Rail, no Dual Light Beam, no 250mm Arti. The only choice is to lose the utility of Precisions and Furies by downgrading meta or change weapon system entirely by switching to rockets.
The only way to avoid that is simply to choose a different route - fitting mods, implants...etc.

Fitting mods have stigma which leads to comments of "newbie-fit" but they shouldn't, they are a utility module, not a waste of a slot...

Max skilled the Corax can be alright.

But its very unfriendly to low sp players seeing how you almost need to have genos to make proper fits work.

It is.

Not sure if you've used Coraxes but...
They are slow. Very slow. Only the Algos is slower than the Corax. But the Algos can project high damage very far.

Rocket fits are alright. Although they are outclassed in DPS by every single other brawling destroyer. Thrasher, Algos, Coercer, Corm, Catalyst. The only two pluses they have are that they can hit up to 13k with their main DPS and up to 22k with their long range ammo, and that their damage can't be mitigated through ewar such as TDs.

LML fits are terrible. Absolutely garbage. Less than 1500ms with a MWD. A full rack of LMLs does pitiful damage (170dps with faction ammo and 1 BCSII ) and couple that with the fact that you need a pg rig/module and you can do almost nothing to increase your damage or speed in any worthwhile amount. The Talwar outclasses it in every way possible.

There's literally nothing a LML Corax can do that a LML Talwar can't do better.




Also. Fitting mods are a waste of a slot if every single other destroyer can use similar fits without having to use a fitting module. Not utilizing one slot can make or break a ship. (See Hookbill with 5 mid slots)

LML Corax is all about alpha, range, and the explosion radius bonus. If you think outside of the box you will surprise people:

High:
Arbalest Light Launcher x 7
Mid:
Limited MWD
F-90 Positional Sensor Booster w/o script.
Faint Warp Disruptor
PWNG Target Painter
Low:
BCU II x 2
Rigs:
Warhead Calefaction
Bay Loader

205 DPS unheated. 1445 alpha. 73km lock range. 3.9 k EHP. The alpha in particular is crushing. No implants, fitting mods or rigs were used. Absolutely need T2 launchers?

High:
LML II x 7
Mid:
Limited MWD
F-90 Positional Sensor Booster
SSE II
Faint Warp Disruptor
Low:
BCU II
Nano II
Rigs:
Ancillary Current
Calefaction Warhead
Shield Extender

185 DPs with a 1367 Alpha. Or 226 DPS with 1669 alpha with Furies. 4.7k EHP. The Corax locks and hits farther then the Talwar and also can apply more of its paper damage.

I think you forgot the coercer, the catalyst isn't a special case. Even with maxed fitting skills, you won't fit focused beams and a prop mod.