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More immunity for Incursion Runners Required.

First post
Author
Zaron Arzi
Terbo Holdings
#41 - 2011-11-14 03:50:55 UTC
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:
LESS IMMUNITY imo.
And the next Hulkageddon should target them and lvl 4 runners too. Get them scared for their faction fit ships :D


I like this idea. Expand HG to 4 weeks of rewards for incursion deaths.
RUSROG
Avalanche.
#42 - 2011-11-14 04:01:51 UTC
Do I see tears?

Let me lick those sweet tears, mmmm.

Taste so salty, those tears.

Mmmm...

MOAR TEARS!

I demand MOAR TEARS!

--

On another note, nothing is safe in EVE - if you don't like it go play wow or something.

EVE is unpredictable, if you don't have friends to run incursions with - you're doing something wrong.
GM Homonoia
Game Master Retirement Home
#43 - 2011-11-14 04:07:45 UTC
Suicide ganks (face it, that is what this is) are a valid and viable tactic in EVE. This tactic means that your attacker gets blown up, just like in any normal suicide gank. And just like any other suicide gank there are ways to protect yourself from it; in this case it means having redundant systems and not count on the bare minimum. Or bring ECCM.

The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits.

Also, it is GM Homonoia - the goddess of concord and oneness of mind.
Not GM Hormone - the family of chemicals that are designed to do weird stuff to your body and mental state.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-11-14 04:21:27 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
Suicide ganks (face it, that is what this is) are a valid and viable tactic in EVE. This tactic means that your attacker gets blown up, just like in any normal suicide gank. And just like any other suicide gank there are ways to protect yourself from it; in this case it means having redundant systems and not count on the bare minimum. Or bring ECCM.

The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits.

Also, it is GM Homonoia - the goddess of concord and oneness of mind.
Not GM Hormone - the family of chemicals that are designed to do weird stuff to your body and mental state.



not mt pwning.
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-11-14 04:33:51 UTC
RUSROG wrote:
Do I see tears?

Let me lick those sweet tears, mmmm.

Taste so salty, those tears.

Mmmm...

MOAR TEARS!

I demand MOAR TEARS!

--

On another note, nothing is safe in EVE - if you don't like it go play wow or something.

EVE is unpredictable, if you don't have friends to run incursions with - you're doing something wrong.


Imagine those tears if the HaG did as I suggested and targetted the most expensive faction fits

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?

Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-11-14 04:34:31 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
Suicide ganks (face it, that is what this is) are a valid and viable tactic in EVE. This tactic means that your attacker gets blown up, just like in any normal suicide gank. And just like any other suicide gank there are ways to protect yourself from it; in this case it means having redundant systems and not count on the bare minimum. Or bring ECCM.

The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits.

Also, it is GM Homonoia - the goddess of concord and oneness of mind.
Not GM Hormone - the family of chemicals that are designed to do weird stuff to your body and mental state.


Oh I am SO sigging you

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2011-11-14 04:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
GM Homonoia wrote:
Suicide ganks (face it, that is what this is) are a valid and viable tactic in EVE. This tactic means that your attacker gets blown up, just like in any normal suicide gank. And just like any other suicide gank there are ways to protect yourself from it; in this case it means having redundant systems and not count on the bare minimum. Or bring ECCM.

The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits.

Also, it is GM Homonoia - the goddess of concord and oneness of mind.
Not GM Hormone - the family of chemicals that are designed to do weird stuff to your body and mental state.


Wow, talk about a buzz killer. Smile

You went and ran off all the charter members of the "Silent Majority" brigade that seem to think some of the recent changes means that CCP has decided high sec should become absolutely safe... as opposed to making sure players on both sides of the fence have the tools necessary to employ their trade.

This thread could have gone on for several pages of amusement. Thanks a lot big guy.

(Actually, seriously, thanks a lot GM Homonia for setting things straight. Cheers.)

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Jr Instructorcon
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2011-11-14 07:07:41 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
Suicide ganks (face it, that is what this is) are a valid and viable tactic in EVE. This tactic means that your attacker gets blown up, just like in any normal suicide gank. And just like any other suicide gank there are ways to protect yourself from it; in this case it means having redundant systems and not count on the bare minimum. Or bring ECCM.

The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits.

Also, it is GM Homonoia - the goddess of concord and oneness of mind.
Not GM Hormone - the family of chemicals that are designed to do weird stuff to your body and mental state.


I... don't even know what to say. Bless you.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#49 - 2011-11-14 08:12:30 UTC
So here's a question, why aren't these logi pilots using ECCM/remote ECCM? Seriously, shame on you if you get ECM'd by a blackbird in a guardian/basilisk.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#50 - 2011-11-14 09:04:54 UTC
The tactic is suicidal and I doubt that any attempts would be really effective. Logistics have high sensor strengths so it is a gamble if a suicide ganker is able to break their lock and prevent them from repping a target. Also incursion ships are fitted for resistance/buffer, so they can last a few seconds, even when the sanshas focus their fire, because that is what a good incursion ship is supposed to do.

Suicide jamming is more of a comedy relief then a threat for any incursion fleet. Clowns that get themselves blown up are always hilarious.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#51 - 2011-11-14 11:29:01 UTC
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
Tagera wrote:
As someone who on occasion runs incursions...they're not faucets. They're fire hoses, a good fleet can make about a bil per person in 8 to 10 hours. I was talking to one guy a few months back. He was 3months into the game and had over 17bil saved from just doing incursions. No real risk means crap tons of profit.



8-10 hours can make a bill as well in null and there is less risk due to intel.

20 minutes a sanctum 35m each is 105m a hour time ten hours 1050m plus you got faction rats as well
ohh thats not even in fleet i also almost forgot escalations

90 days aprox to 3 months thats 94.5b, 5.55 times as much just saying


Dude, you do realise they reduced Sanctum spawn times? That you need to run the onboard scanner 930s0 to spot it? This is not true of Incursions, where OTA's and NCO's just respawn INSTANTLY to a instantly warpable celestial. And further, you are in hisec, so your risk is basically zero - whereas in nullsec, to get that ISK, you need a carrier and are vulnerable to being ganked.

Bzzzt. Try again you mewling ingrate.

also: LULS
Worrff
Enterprise Holdings
#52 - 2011-11-14 12:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Worrff
GM Homonoia wrote:
EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway)


For this to be anywhere near true, you would need to remove Insurance payouts for Concord related kills.

As it is now, there are virtually no consequences for suicide ganking.

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#53 - 2011-11-14 12:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
GM Homonoia wrote:
The loophole that was plugged recently fixed a tactic that gave no warning AND had NO consequence. EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway). This tactic has plenty consequences, namely CONCORDdokken + standings/security hits

See, this is bullcrap.

The "warning" was the fact that they were in fleet with 5 or 6 guys who all had corp history with people that were VERY VERY KNOWN to be doing this. Congratulations on saving the retards too stupid to check that.

The "consequences" never happened because the carebears are too ******* carebear to make it happen. Namely, that every ship SKNK used to shoot the bears, went red on the overview. Their own faction / pirate battleships. Points at this point, if anyone can think of any possible way that could have bitten them in the ass Roll

FFS stop making every "consequence" in this ******* game something that is doled out by NPCs, and tell the players to HTFU and do something about it themselves.

Because all you're doing is pushing the scale further and further one way, where eventually every ******* ****** dipshit in highsec will be expecting a giant CONCORD fairy to come and make everything better for them. The fact you have reimbursed some of these losses is a terrible indictment of the current state of the game. Remember: you have previously stated (as a GM team) that this tactic was "working as intended." So I guess jamming the logi will be "working as intended" until the petitions stack up, then?

As for the tards who think "Null is safer, coz of intel channels! tee hee!" then I counter with - http://www.suddenbuggery.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1670

Because there are quite easy ways around intel channels. But hey, think that if you want.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-11-14 13:05:10 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:
Corp/alliance bans 11/14/2011
From: carmelos53
Sent: 2011.11.13 18:14
To: Public incursion blacklist,

Kill It With Fire - now added due to blackbird suicide jamming



Snap to it CCP. Like GM Hormone said, there is no warning for Incursion runners of this threat, so there is no way to protect against, therefore it's an exploit against Incursion runners.

THE ISK FOUNTAIN MUST NOT BE STOPPED.


7/10

Would read again. It is short and subtle, causing many to miss it.

My only criticism would be the all caps at the end. A little too much, but didn't hurt the overall presentation.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#55 - 2011-11-14 13:24:53 UTC
Worrff wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
EVE doesn't do 'no consequences' (or close to it anyway)


For this to be anywhere near true, you would need to remove Insurance payouts for Concord related kills.

As it is now, there are virtually no consequences for suicide ganking.


You should check out the test server and read a few more threads insurance is changing, not that it will do a thing to stop suicide ganking. All the gankers i know don't do it for profit put rather for the pure joy of it and the sound of pointless fury in local.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#56 - 2011-11-14 13:35:04 UTC
You talk'in bout ma Blackbird! Fo shizzle!

I play EVE for tears and this thread delivers.

Your precious Highsec Bhaalgorns and Machariels (like the ones we got blown up last night) will never be safe.

Bears will be bears and gankers will always destroy clueless people.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2011-11-14 13:38:15 UTC
mkint wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Ariane VoxDei wrote:
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
can you link to where GM Hormone said no warning for incursions runners?

Does matter where or if?

The scenario is pretty selfexplaining. All they have time for is to notice a neutral on grid and pray they are out of range, before logistics locks are broken and blocked for 20s. 20s without remote reps, and usually no local tank, is a long time with a incursion hammering the fleet.

I wonder how PvP fleets can manage with their logistics getting permajammed by a lone blackbird.

An incursion griefing blackbird doesn't need to fit tank or weapons, or even a mix of ECM types. Just needs a 2:1 ratio of amarr:gallente/caldari:minmatar, or scout out the target fleet in advance (which is trivial to do) and just fit for what they've got, plus the lowslot and rig modules.

Everyone at CCP keeps deciding ECM sucks as a game mechanic, but they never bother to make it not suck. Why is that? WTB ECM that reduces your targeting slots by 1.




Ohhh you just gave me a great idea for a sensor-dampening scorpion! No "chance based" shennannigans there!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-11-14 14:00:58 UTC
This thread continues to deliver the goods!

If Incursions and Sleepers are the "end-game" for PvE, then act like it and properly fit your ships expecting a gank attempt.

Also: Align to a safe spot warp-out? Care bears these days....

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Mart Allini
Lead Farmers
#59 - 2011-11-14 14:08:51 UTC
Woot, Eve fame.

For reference, we were just trying this out yesterday and out of three attempts, only one ended up in non-blackbird ships dying. I think the logi panicing and warping out had a large part in that happening. By the end, we'd used 15 blackbirds, lost a bunch of sec status, but killed a machariel and a bhaalgorn and looted two shiny federation navy stasis webifier. All in all a good night.

FYI: a smart hauler would buy up a lot of meta3 ecm and haul them to Jita
Maximille Biagge
Hydra Eternal
#60 - 2011-11-14 14:21:39 UTC
I endorse this thread.

The blackbird suiciding that is, and all the tears.

A few minor points:

To the guy who thinks the jamming cycle magicaly ends once the blackbird has been destroyed - lol try again.

To all the guys saying fit ECCM, you are welcome to try; but do some maths first - you might be dissapointed.

To all incursion runners: be afraid.