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Stealth bomber effectiveness

Author
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#21 - 2013-09-05 22:53:19 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
Also protip, if you're posting about a subject it's a good idea to get an understanding of the subject before posting. Hopefully you will remember that for next time.


Why don't you go ahead and log in with your main, and post up all those bomber kills of yours. Otherwise you're utterly full of ****, and should exit your own thread.
whyumad tho
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-09-05 23:04:47 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
whyumad tho wrote:
Also protip, if you're posting about a subject it's a good idea to get an understanding of the subject before posting. Hopefully you will remember that for next time.


Why don't you go ahead and log in with your main, and post up all those bomber kills of yours. Otherwise you're utterly full of ****, and should exit your own thread.


Wow, this thread has turned into a plethora of bad trolls, none of whom seem to be interested in discussing the topic nor do they seem to have any experience on the issue.

If you live in lowsec and do the majority of your pvp there, then why/how would bombs affect you?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#23 - 2013-09-05 23:09:17 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
whyumad tho wrote:
Also protip, if you're posting about a subject it's a good idea to get an understanding of the subject before posting. Hopefully you will remember that for next time.


Why don't you go ahead and log in with your main, and post up all those bomber kills of yours. Otherwise you're utterly full of ****, and should exit your own thread.


Wow, this thread has turned into a plethora of bad trolls, none of whom seem to be interested in discussing the topic nor do they seem to have any experience on the issue.

If you live in lowsec and do the majority of your pvp there, then why/how would bombs affect you?


This thread was started by a bad troll who demands that anyone offering discussion in it bring understanding to the table, yet has failed to prove that they have any understanding of the topic in their own right.

Because you want to hide out, as far as anyone here knows, you're a 25 day old scrub right out of your trial who doesn't know a thing about the game to be commenting on.
whyumad tho
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-09-05 23:18:17 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
This thread was started by a bad troll who demands that anyone offering discussion in it bring understanding to the table, yet has failed to prove that they have any understanding of the topic in their own right.


The only time I have gone off topic is to reply to your silly troll posting, I mean seriously do you just go from thread to thread posting about posting? Maybe if you posted on topic a little more people would take you seriously, I guess on topic posting is too much to ask for.

Domanique Altares wrote:
Because you want to hide out, as far as anyone here knows, you're a 25 day old scrub right out of your trial who doesn't know a thing about the game to be commenting on.


Unlike you I'm not an attention seeker, I don't go around posting in threads ignoring the topic and fishing for likes and asking people to post with their mains. I have consistently spoken about stealthbombers and how their versatility is overpowered, obviously that's too much for you too handle.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#25 - 2013-09-05 23:25:02 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:

Unlike you I'm not an attention seeker, I don't go around posting in threads ignoring the topic and fishing for likes and asking people to post with their mains. I have consistently spoken about stealthbombers and how their versatility is overpowered, obviously that's too much for you too handle.


I don't give a damn if I get likes, or not. I don't go around with a raw alt and demand that anyone replying to my thread prove their understanding of a topic or leave the thread. You've offered nothing by way of tangible proof that you've ever even flown a bomber, and yet you demand that anyone have 'understanding?' You're fishing for nothing but yes men, and now that the majority of the thread has disagreed with your premise that they are OP, you attempt to negate their opinion by supposing that they are the ones that don't know what they're talking about.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#26 - 2013-09-05 23:43:46 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
So basically the problem isn't with bombs but with probing. Hm. I agree with Danika, show us your lossmails that caused this much butthurt.

I'd also like to point out that you've offered no reasonable "rebalance" for Stealth Bombers, only that you're mad and want them nerfed because of "reasons". Why don't you offer something constructive to "fix" their so-called overpowered nature rather than unleashing tears?


I never once mentioned that bombs aren't the problem,, my point is (and has been) that bombers are too versatile. If you read the thread rather than posting some gibberish about "tears" and "butthurt" you would know that. Also protip, if you're posting about a subject it's a good idea to get an understanding of the subject before posting. Hopefully you will remember that for next time.



Quote:
This has been the norm for many years, it has become much easier to do with the new probing mechanics.


This suggests that bombs are not the problem and is reinforced by your statement that bombing strategies have not changed in years. If bombing mechanics and strategies have not changed, why do they suddenly need a nerf? Because something else has become imbalanced? Have I read the thread? Yeah, and it's full of butthurt. I also fly bombers on the regular, they were the first T2 Frigate I skilled into and I would rather see something constructive instead of your feeble attempts to derail the thread with slights against me. Do you fly bombers? Do you understand anything about their drawbacks? I see no evidence to support that nor any reasonable balancing attempts on your part. Until I see something that proves otherwise, I'll leave you to it.
Boris Winterbourne
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-09-06 09:52:48 UTC
Confirming that OP is butthurt... HTFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-09-06 10:38:30 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
Sigras wrote:
yeah because what this game needs is MORE blobbing . . .

seriously, why are you trying to get rid of the only effective counter to a large fleet besides a larger fleet?


It's an effective counter to all kinds of fleets, it's way too versatile.
In terms of "blobbing" you're looking at it the wrong way, the "blobbers" are the group that's able to field several full fleets as well as a 50man bombing fleet, making it harder for a smaller entity to engage them.


i agree..... a squad of 8 bombers will do roughly 64 000 dmg with all 8 bombs......that is enough to take out frigs, cruisers and some battlecruiser fleets(depends on fittings) but will not be able to take out battleship fleet(for that u need 3 4 squads) and this is with out mwd.

The bomber should be very effective versus large targets but they are more effective against smaller targets,like 3 4 bombers will take out any destroyer or frigate fleet if they do a wrong move (like warping to a drag bubble), but will have small to no effect to battleships(even more less effective on armor BS).

I'm not saying nerf SB or anything i`m just saying make it harder for SB to bomb smaller targets.....

my idea is:
- the bombs should have 2000 damage and explosion radius 250 m same range of 15 km and add a damage multiplier based on target signature radius. For example for targets with a signature radius from 250 - 350 add a damage multiplier or x 2 and for targets that have a signature radius over 350 add a damage multiplier of 4 this way the bombs will keep their effectiveness against big targets but will lower effectiveness against smaller targets.
- The explosion radius vs signature radius mechanics should remain in place as it is now.
-And also signature radius of battleships and larger ships should be adjusted so that with fleet bonuses should not be under 350 m...
Capt Canada
What Corp is it
#29 - 2013-09-06 14:43:23 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:


Again, you're wrong, here's a video of 'goku fleet', a concept which uses bombers with tank/logis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZNX4H53DVw

This video has them beating a wolf fleet (frigates), for a ship that "can't stand up to anything smaller or faster than a cruiser" it does pretty well, no?
Actually if you listen carefully to the video about 2 mins in, someone makes a comment "this is what we tried to do yesterday and failed miserably".. Everything has its moment, I'm pretty sure that had the frigate gang landed at zero instead of 25 things may not have gone so well for the bombers.
Battleships in large nulsec fights need to stay aligned, being in a fleet of 200 BS that simple land and start shooting is asking for trouble (and it does happen often). A good FC will align as soon as he lands, if the fleet is half decent they anchor as soon as they land hence are aligned, making bombing runs that much harder. Another thing too might be having battleships fit some extra tank rather than all damage mods if they know the opposition is likely to front with bombers.

Bombers are fine just the way they are (a little more PG & CPU would be nice). It takes practice and teamwork to use them effectively, just like it takes teamwork and practice to counter them.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#30 - 2013-09-06 15:38:00 UTC
Capt Canada wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:


Again, you're wrong, here's a video of 'goku fleet', a concept which uses bombers with tank/logis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZNX4H53DVw

This video has them beating a wolf fleet (frigates), for a ship that "can't stand up to anything smaller or faster than a cruiser" it does pretty well, no?
Actually if you listen carefully to the video about 2 mins in, someone makes a comment "this is what we tried to do yesterday and failed miserably".. Everything has its moment, I'm pretty sure that had the frigate gang landed at zero instead of 25 things may not have gone so well for the bombers.
Battleships in large nulsec fights need to stay aligned, being in a fleet of 200 BS that simple land and start shooting is asking for trouble (and it does happen often). A good FC will align as soon as he lands, if the fleet is half decent they anchor as soon as they land hence are aligned, making bombing runs that much harder. Another thing too might be having battleships fit some extra tank rather than all damage mods if they know the opposition is likely to front with bombers.

Bombers are fine just the way they are (a little more PG & CPU would be nice). It takes practice and teamwork to use them effectively, just like it takes teamwork and practice to counter them.


Those bombers were orbiting in a small bunch, and generally not aligned. Imagine what an enemy group of 4-8 stealth bombers would have done to Progod's SB fleet! In general, a fleet of frigates will obliterate a fleet of SB's as long as they don't get bombed on approach.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#31 - 2013-09-06 17:14:53 UTC
Bombs fly for 10sec, you get a full 10 second warning. What surprises me about bombing runs is that it gets anyone at all.

I love flying my bomber. But when things go wrong, and they often do, we can lose a whole fleet in 30secs. Its not uncommon for me to lose 2 bombers in a night.

Also some of the math is wrong. At max skills a bomb puts out 8000. That means only 6 bombs of the same type before they start destroying each other. Also a frigate only takes about 10%-20% of the damage because of small sig radius. So with 6 bombs thats about 4800 before resists for a 40m sig radius frigate. AFs with the right fit would tank that.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#32 - 2013-09-06 19:44:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Bombs fly for 10sec, you get a full 10 second warning. What surprises me about bombing runs is that it gets anyone at all.

I love flying my bomber. But when things go wrong, and they often do, we can lose a whole fleet in 30secs. Its not uncommon for me to lose 2 bombers in a night.

Also some of the math is wrong. At max skills a bomb puts out 8000. That means only 6 bombs of the same type before they start destroying each other. Also a frigate only takes about 10%-20% of the damage because of small sig radius. So with 6 bombs thats about 4800 before resists for a 40m sig radius frigate. AFs with the right fit would tank that.


While your math is correct, I was using 8 as the maximum as you can't guarantee that every pilot have cov ops 5 AND are all flying the same bomber. Most bombing communities generally stick to Scorch bombs to take advantage of the thermal resistance hole that is prevalent in so many hulls. Unless of course they have prior knowledge to their targets resists. 7-8 tends to be the norm that I've seen anyhow.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#33 - 2013-09-06 20:44:47 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Bombs fly for 10sec, you get a full 10 second warning. What surprises me about bombing runs is that it gets anyone at all.

I love flying my bomber. But when things go wrong, and they often do, we can lose a whole fleet in 30secs. Its not uncommon for me to lose 2 bombers in a night.

Also some of the math is wrong. At max skills a bomb puts out 8000. That means only 6 bombs of the same type before they start destroying each other. Also a frigate only takes about 10%-20% of the damage because of small sig radius. So with 6 bombs thats about 4800 before resists for a 40m sig radius frigate. AFs with the right fit would tank that.


While your math is correct, I was using 8 as the maximum as you can't guarantee that every pilot have cov ops 5 AND are all flying the same bomber. Most bombing communities generally stick to Scorch bombs to take advantage of the thermal resistance hole that is prevalent in so many hulls. Unless of course they have prior knowledge to their targets resists. 7-8 tends to be the norm that I've seen anyhow.


Bombs have 240 Armor with 99.5% resists. It takes 6 full skill bombs to remove the Armor (.005 * 8k = 40 per bomb), and a 7th to destroy the structure. Since bombs don't damage themselves, you can always send 7 bombers at once, and often you can get away with 8 because people aren't in the correct bomber and don't have max skills.

Sig radius of a bomb is 400, sig of a frig is 40. A covops IV pilot does 7680 * 40 / 400 = 768 per bomb to your non-mwd base frigate.
Most frig hulls have 2k (EWAR frig) to 8k (Tanky Merlin) EHP. AF's generally have 5-12k EHP, but sometimes as much as 20k when boosted by links.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-09-06 21:29:17 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
certain entities now use them exclusively to grind structures.


Grr Goons are doing something that CVA has done for years, this is now some sort of problem.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Dave Stark
#35 - 2013-09-06 21:50:24 UTC
a ship with battleship sized weapons is doing almost battleship dps, and this is a problem?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-09-06 21:53:08 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
a ship with battleship sized weapons is doing almost battleship dps, and this is a problem?


It's a problem because Goons are doing it, or something.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Dave Stark
#37 - 2013-09-06 21:59:31 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
a ship with battleship sized weapons is doing almost battleship dps, and this is a problem?


It's a problem because Goons are doing it, or something.


believe it or not; it's not just goons. it's an epidemic!
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#38 - 2013-09-07 06:13:32 UTC
whyumad tho wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Their downsides are significant - you can be jammed by a single EC-300 or a ECM burst. You have the EHP of a wet tissue. You can be locked and alpha'd by a Nado or naga who will warp out before your bombs land. You are utterly dead if a ceptor or an AF gets in amongst your gang, and people can counter-bomb you and clean you all up. plus, if you jump your bomber gang onto a JB camp or (heaven forfend) a pipe bomb, it's light out everyone.


Yeah, you're right, they are vulnerable to nados/afs/gate camps. If only they had some way of evading these things, like a cov ops cloa...oh wait.


You can bomb while cloa...oh wait.


whyumad tho wrote:
Again, if only there was some sort of covert ops hauler (pro tip, there is) that could carry many bombs and bridge through the black ops into destination, ready to hand out bombs once the fleet had used the 4 they had. I mean seriously, do you even play this game?


So, your last complaint is that someone has an alt.

Wow.

/Charlie Sheen
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