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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#561 - 2013-09-05 14:53:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I understand perfectly even through the convoluted paragraphs of hot air what the position is.
So what is it?



Sorry Tippia, it's not on me to affirm or post his position. The forums open for him to detail exactly what his position is. I wouldn't want to be accused of putting words into his mouth again.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#562 - 2013-09-05 14:57:28 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Sorry Tippia, it's not on me to affirm or post his position.
It is on you to demonstrate that you've perfectly understood his position if you claim that you have.

Quote:
I wouldn't want to be accused of putting words into his mouth again.
It's a bit too late for that since you refused to listen when he rejected your version of what was said, and also refused to provide any kind of evidence of the position you assumed he had.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#563 - 2013-09-05 14:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
La Nariz wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Like the "eloquent fact" that hi sec is "completely safe", right? There is a sense of desperation with you lot that only gets more obvious as you post your nonsense drivel. So you'll have to forgive me for not taking your "eloquent facts" seriously.


You'll have to forgive me for not taking your claims seriously after Tippa has repeatedly refuted them only for you to deny them outright without any logic, cogent argument, or thought behind it.

Making outlandish claims with the intention of abandoning your position and instead go on circular spins does not constitute logical, cogent arguments. And labeling your ideas and opinions as "fact" and "logical" doesn't make them so either.

Quote:
~~~~Highsec is safe~~~~

Perfect example here. Are you going to present facts to defend your original statement that hi sec is "completely safe"? Or is it going to be the usual and go on a spin ride and move goal posts around?

In before it's already been proven numerous times with facts, logic, and ISO standards!1!

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#564 - 2013-09-05 15:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Tippia wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Sorry Tippia, it's not on me to affirm or post his position.
It is on you to demonstrate that you've perfectly understood his position if you claim that you have.

Quote:
I wouldn't want to be accused of putting words into his mouth again.
It's a bit too late for that since you refused to listen when he rejected your version of what was said, and also refused to provide any kind of evidence of the position you assumed he had.



No Tippia, it is not my responsibility to write out his thoughts. It's his responsibility to make clear to those reading it what precisely he feels. I've read the entire thread and understand as best anyone could and that's where my responsibility ends. You are more than welcome to summarize his points if you feel you understand them well enough to do so and have the care to repost them for him.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#565 - 2013-09-05 15:10:38 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
No Tippia it is not my responsibility to write out his thoughts.
Again, it is on you to demonstrate that you've perfectly understood his position if you claim that you have, especially if he has to repeat that you keep trying to put words in his mouth.

Quote:
I've read enough to understand as best anyone could and that's where my responsibility ends.
…until you start making claims that you are then unwilling to support. You seem to have stacked up a number of claims about things he has supposedly said, and you also seem very unwilling (or is it unable?) to prove that actually has said anything of the kind.

So you really have two options: stop making those claims and stop drawing too far-reaching conclusions and accusations based on those claims, or demonstrate where you got your notions from so they can be addressed properly.

MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
You'll have to forgive me for not taking your claims seriously after Tippa has repeatedly refuted them only for you to deny them outright without any logic, cogent argument, or thought behind it.

Making outlandish claims with the intention of abandoning your position and instead go on circular spins does not constitute logical, cogent arguments.
I get the distinct feeling that that's kind of what he was saying… Blink
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#566 - 2013-09-05 15:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I don't have to demonstrate anything and repeating it again isn't going to make it so. I think at this point you'd be better off summarizing his points that you clearly understand and everyone else fails to grasp. Feel free.
Spankijs Omaristos
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#567 - 2013-09-05 15:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Spankijs Omaristos
Yes please, cut those profits in half at least! Twisted
Or increase risk by 350% in High-sec
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2013-09-05 15:18:16 UTC
March rabbit wrote:


PS: having good opportunity want to say "hello" to Red Alliance and Legion of xXdeathXx. Found some systems claimed by these 2 alliances. It was good to see they didn't disappear and continue to run.



Like I said maybe in the drones. But I'm looking at 5 intel channels that haven't stopped flashing for more than 6 seconds since I logged in.

....and RA and XIX....yeah welcome to no mans land.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#569 - 2013-09-05 15:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I don't have to demonstrate anything
So your claims don't need to be supported, but everyone else's are. Gotcha. Roll

Quote:
I think at this point you'd be better off summarizing his points that you clearly understand
I never claimed to clearly understand his points. Don't put words in my mouth.

This is exactly the kind of mess you keep getting yourself into.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#570 - 2013-09-05 15:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
That's not what I said at all. In the context of the conversation you're attempting to force me into i'm not making any assertions. You are. So its on you to prove I do not understand his points.

You can start by summarizing his points and then highlighting of those which I didn't grasp by pointing out the argument I made that didn't consider them.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#571 - 2013-09-05 15:23:59 UTC
I have to say that I find it absolutely precious that whenever I produce these back-of-the-envelope calculations of the sheer amount of wealth (ISK, LP, items, all totalled up) generated by hi-sec missions, it never ever fails to generate a huge shitstorm of denial, rage, obfuscation and desperate attempts to divert the discussion to something - anything else to obscure the simple fact that a single high population mission hub generates more wealth than all the high end moons combined.

Anyway, please do carry on. We can get this one to 50 pages easily. I know you guys can do it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#572 - 2013-09-05 15:25:23 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Sorry Tippia, it's not on me to affirm or post his position.
It is on you to demonstrate that you've perfectly understood his position if you claim that you have.

Quote:
I wouldn't want to be accused of putting words into his mouth again.
It's a bit too late for that since you refused to listen when he rejected your version of what was said, and also refused to provide any kind of evidence of the position you assumed he had.



No Tippia, it is not my responsibility to write out his thoughts. It's his responsibility to make clear to those reading it what precisely he feels.


And i've already done that, and yet of all the posters here, only you and maybe Tardbar have misunderstood (or exaggerated) that which i said. That should tell you something.
Quote:

I've read the entire thread and understand as best anyone could and that's where my responsibility ends.


This is where you keep falling off. You don't understand what I've said and have blamed me for YOUR inability to understand a nuanced position. You've gone so far as to deliberately lie about what I'm saying, probably to make yourself feel better after realizing you misunderstood.

I never said missions were killing EVE, that the EVE economy is in bad shape or anything of the sort. I said there is an imbalance and that imbalance going on for long enough means bad things down the road. I've offered ideas on fixing the imbalances (like increase risk in missions, or tags/materials system instead of bounties for not only missions but also anoms including null sec anoms ct ect) and have demonstrated why other people's proposed ideas for fixing the imbalances (buff null sec) is a bad idea given recent history (the anomalies nerf for example).

I've yet to meet a poster who takes what i'm about to say to heart, but I'll say it anyways: Your problem is with you and your perceptions (and lack of communication skill, among other issues). It's not with me. Stop blaming me for you faults.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#573 - 2013-09-05 15:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Can you please provide evidence an "imbalance" exists?

And while you're doing that define precisely what you mean by "imbalance".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#574 - 2013-09-05 15:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
That's not what I said at all


You: “What position does he hold?”
Me: “So you don't know. Ok.”
You: “I understand perfectly even through the convoluted paragraphs of hot air what the position is.”
Me: “So what is it?”
You: “Sorry Tippia, it's not on me to affirm or post his position.”
Me: “It is on you to demonstrate that you've perfectly understood his position if you claim that you have.”

So, yes, it is very much what you said.

You claimed to know understand perfectly what his position is. Now you are trying to avoid having to support this claim.

Quote:
So its on you to prove I do not understand his points.
What would you say his points are?

Quote:
Can you please provide evidence an "imbalance" exists?
This has already been provided.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#575 - 2013-09-05 15:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I understand his position just fine. If you wish to present evidence to the contrary feel free to do so.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#576 - 2013-09-05 15:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I understand his position perfectly fine.
Prove it.
What is this “biased, factless, unproven outlook” is this, and when was he forced to back down from it?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#577 - 2013-09-05 15:30:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I have to say that I find it absolutely precious that whenever I produce these back-of-the-envelope calculations of the sheer amount of wealth (ISK, LP, items, all totalled up) generated by hi-sec missions, it never ever fails to generate a huge shitstorm of denial, rage, obfuscation and desperate attempts to divert the discussion to something - anything else to obscure the simple fact that a single high population mission hub generates more wealth than all the high end moons combined.

Anyway, please do carry on. We can get this one to 50 pages easily. I know you guys can do it.


It's the standard human reaction to "omg, my lifeline is threatened" lol. I remember your Upton sinclair quote on the matter Cool .

As for the moons vs mission hub issue you mention, my theory is that high sec people can't really grasp it because they tend to be loners and solo players. They don't see all the wealth mission produce, the see their paltry cut of it. Add that to an unhealthy over-estimation of null sec wealth generation and blam, they feel like the rich null lords are trying to take away their paltry slice of land and kill their mules lol.

They misunderstand because they can't relate.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#578 - 2013-09-05 15:31:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I understand his position perfectly fine.
Prove it.


You first.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#579 - 2013-09-05 15:31:35 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Can you please provide evidence an "imbalance" exists?

And while you're doing that define precisely what you mean by "imbalance".
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#580 - 2013-09-05 15:34:28 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Can you please provide evidence an "imbalance" exists?

And while you're doing that define precisely what you mean by "imbalance".


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3566594#post3566594

See how easy it is to post a link to what I really say about the matter?