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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2541 - 2013-09-05 14:14:31 UTC
NOOOO KEEP THE TANK BONUS.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2542 - 2013-09-05 14:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
marVLs wrote:
Xequecal wrote:

For PvE, they have no competition at all in wormholes. They are vastly superior to everything else by an absurd degree. These ships (well, not the Golem) crap out 1200+ DPS while still tanking the site, have the range bonuses to fully apply that DPS, and now have super-webs so drones must not be risked to kill frigate waves. They also salvage everything, no need to come back with a Noctis. Oh and you can also put a probe launcher on it too so you don't have to worry about getting stuck or having a probing alt.

When people think of C3/C4 solo right now, they think of a 600-700 DPS Tengu. These come in and do double that DPS. 1200 DPS kills a C3 Sleeper battleship in a minute, that's a 15-20m ISK rat killed in a minute.


lol where You got 1200DPS on long ranges?


Maybe on Vargur? hmm nope, 1,1k DPS on 5km in Bastion

Kronos? nope, on null 1,1k DPS on 20few km in Bastion

rest wont reach 1,2k DPS without some extreme mods, and still will be around 50-60km in Bastion so meh for not moving


3x Imperial Navy heatsink
Core C-type LAR
Em/Therm hardeners
CPR II

100MN AB
3 Tracking computers

4 MP II, Conflag

2x CCC II

1239 DPS, 30+20 range, (within orbit range of all sleepers except Sleepless Upholders, these have the worst tank of all sleeper BS so shoot them first) cap stable, tanks any C3 site except for FFRD.

Having 12,500 base capacitor lets you do a lot. Swap the AB for a MJD if you really want, your tank won't be perfect without the ability to speedtank BS missiles and ****** Upholder tracking but it's still doable. Alternately, swap a TC for a web, then you don't have to worry about deploy/scoop drones against frigs. 27+17 range is still good.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2543 - 2013-09-05 14:24:40 UTC
To quote this other post.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.

We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.


And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2544 - 2013-09-05 14:27:59 UTC
wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore...

and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those.
Hayman Wakefield
Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities
#2545 - 2013-09-05 14:29:55 UTC
Given the last couple of balances have worked as :

1st iteration -people rage so gets changed to iteration 2, then some minor fitting tweaks and then release its a bit worrying that we will see these turned into that weird mismash you proposed earlier with some minor fitting changes.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2546 - 2013-09-05 14:30:45 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore...

and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those.


Yes because 90% kin resistance helps me defend against sansha amd blood raiders right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Leats
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2547 - 2013-09-05 14:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Leats
I just want to throw out something... why should i fly a Marauder when they get F***** in the ass?
A Vindicator does all of its jobs by far better, i had someone in my corp who had a 1800dps Vindicator for ratting...
In PvP Vindicators are also the best pick for BS sized ships afaik...

And the whole standings still for 1 Min. without Logistic-support eliminates the possibility to use them in pvp anyways...

I dont understand where this is going, why should i risk my incredible expensive ship for a rang bonus?
I would use them in PvE if they would be usable as a nice Long range dps boat with Carrier like dps, but like this i dont see a scenario where the new Marauders would fit in. Correct me if i am wrong. ;D

Quote:
wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore...

Well lets see how nice it works when you have to stay still for 1 Min. and cant get anny support by logistics in the middle of a large scale pvp-fight... i am 100% sure ppl will start to brodcast you and you get an assload of burst dmg right in your face...

Greetings
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2548 - 2013-09-05 14:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
To quote this other post.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.

We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.


And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.


I like that approach. :)

@F&I crowd: GUYS, WHINE MORE! AND LOUDER! WE NEED THAT 30% BONUS BACK! Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2549 - 2013-09-05 14:32:46 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore...

and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those.


Yes because 90% kin resistance helps me defend against sansha amd blood raiders right?


Then choose appropriate hull... It's not that hard.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2550 - 2013-09-05 14:35:06 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Then choose appropriate hull... It's not that hard.


Lol, I'm sure once you're rich enough you won't need to refit anymore, you just have a ship for each possible fitting.

And a backup. Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#2551 - 2013-09-05 14:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
To quote this other post.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.

We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.


And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.

I Gota say man, I don't envy your position right now. what's that saying "Hell hath no fury like the scorn of a sp/isk invested mmorpg community"
Grarr Dexx
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2552 - 2013-09-05 14:45:22 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
To quote this other post.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.

We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.


And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.


Yes, truly the epitome of practicality, giving a web strength bonus to a ship that also has a role bonus to a module that jumps you 100km in any direction.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#2553 - 2013-09-05 14:48:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Now thigns are better.. Eve is a PVP GAME, all ships that bear weapons should be PVP ships as much as possible.

It is a sandbox, and by that right I can say F*U to your PVP.
I don't think asking for one solid, dedicated PVE ship in the hordes of PVP ships out there.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2554 - 2013-09-05 14:48:19 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
To quote this other post.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.

We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.


And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.


I like that approach. :)

@F&I crowd: GUYS, WHINE MORE! AND LOUDER! WE NEED THAT 30% BONUS BACK! Big smile

I'm right there with ya! And the 7.5% rep bonus back, too!

And to hell with the incursion bears ****** web.
sten mattson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2555 - 2013-09-05 14:49:25 UTC
web bonus is back! me likey!

now the only thing you need for the paladin to be perfect is to roll the capacitor capacity bonus into the hull like you did with the regular apoc years ago and put in a useful bonus!

im a little sad to see the armor tanking bonus go , since this will mean that the hyperion will be the only battleship with that particular bonus, but since t2 resists are back i cant really complain.

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!

Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#2556 - 2013-09-05 14:52:38 UTC

Please diversify more. I don't like the idea of a web bonus on shield tankers.
Thanks.

Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2557 - 2013-09-05 14:55:56 UTC
@CCP

I have a question regarding the weapons timer on the bastion module and how this will effect Maruaders.

Currently, the mini-siege cycle is 60secs. Does this weapons timer that comes from activating the module mean that I would have to wait an additional minute of "deaggressing" after the mini-siege cycle ends before I could jump through the gate or dock up?

If this is the case, this will need to be looked at. If I'm forced in a situation where I need to deaggress from the "super awesome" repping of bastion mode because there are to many people or to much incoming DPS, I'm now forced to wait another minute outside of bastion mode....

I believe there is some missing logic there. Especially when you consider the fact that you took away the native repping bonuses from the hulls. Just for some basic comparison, my dual rep armor BS (no native rep hull bonuses)with legion boost and strong exile booster couldn't tank a Cruise phoon, sleipnir, prophecy, 2 caracals, and gate guns. Now you expect me to take a 1bil BS so I can lose that due to lol active tanking and reduced boost efficiency.

Round 3 is waiting CCP, go find it and bring it to us so we can give you guys some praise.

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Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2558 - 2013-09-05 14:56:23 UTC
What this thread most reveals is the need for a dislike button.
Likes received, dislikes received and net like/dislikes.
Even including Harry's posting this thread has been the one where i wanted it most.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Unseen Spectre
Shadow Eye Ops
#2559 - 2013-09-05 15:01:17 UTC
I have not followed this thread very closely, but one thing I noted is that it seems contradictionary to make the ship's sub-Warp speed slower while giving them a bonus to webs which only has a limited range of 10 km for T2 webs - should they not be faster to utilize this bonus efficiently?
Kaeden Dourhand
Pagids Legion
#2560 - 2013-09-05 15:04:29 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:
my dual rep armor BS (no native rep hull bonuses)with legion boost and strong exile booster couldn't tank a Cruise phoon, sleipnir, prophecy, 2 caracals, and gate guns.


Yes, this is completely relevant. *cough*

As for feedback on the most recent proposal; what the hell are you doing devs? As someone mentioned before, take a step back and ask yourself what you're trying to achieve with this rebelance and these ships, because at the moment it is all over the place with bonuses/roles/features that do not mesh well, or at all.

Specific feedback on the bastion module? What the hell? I didn't consider it worthwhile at the first iteration, but with the resist removal of the 2nd iteration there is EVEN LESS incentive to use it. immobility and loss of RR potential for 25% range and boost to local rep? Thanks, but no thanks.

As for specific ship feedback, the only ship I can talk about is the paladin that I currently fly. And the current proposal is a hit in the face for the paladin. I'm not even talking about the incompatibility of web + range of bastion, but I am talking about the loss of the tanking boost for an (arguably) useless web boost, in exchange for t2 resists. Not a bad trade a lot of people say, but the paladin's t2 resists do nothing to help against its common missioning enemies (EM/therm). This forces more slot allocation for the tank to reach the same local rep potential outside of bastion mode (which most likely is no longer possible).