Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The issues with number 2 are then you may as well just go for the JF. If anyone is about to help you jump a hauler, they'll want to get the bang for their buck and have the greater cargo space. Not to mention, this wouldn't at all make the DST unique. It would just be the JF's tiny red-headed stepbrother. We have enough group hauling in Null-sec as it is. I think a decent amount of us are looking for something we can just jump in and do our thing, without worrying about cyno chains.

The reason for that is because of the fact the JF CAN jump. Point is, we don't need another jump bridge hauler. We have that. I understand some haulers don't like saving up for a big expensive ship with a long training-time, but that's what makes the JF an enticing goal in the first place.

Yes and no. The jump freighter requires a significant investment of both time and isk, but it also hauls considerably more than what I was suggesting (roughly around 100k to 200k cargo space). The vast majority of pilots will never need to have that much transport ability and usually minor to medium alliances themselves typically have few (if any) JF pilots available to them. Having a jump capable industrial with a reasonable, but not a vast, amount of cargo space would also open up smaller / newer industrial corps and pilots the chance to be profitable in null-sec. As a semi-industrial pilot myself, it has ALWAYS been a hassle trying to coordinate getting my loot back into high-sec for sale, as well as getting necessary modules, ammo, charges, etc back into the area of space I was working.

And let's compare it the tasks a jump freighter does. You will NEVER run out of a need for a Jump Freighter, even in a small alliance as they will still be the most efficient way to carry goods safely to and from null-sec. If anything, having a jump capable industrial would show the value of owning such a ship.

Now, let's not forget the "unintended" use part of a Jump Capable Industrial. Think of what it would mean for, say, raiding corporations, who finally will have a ship that can carry a POS, a weeks worth of fuel, and a few mods and be able to move it quickly into a quiet section of space to conduct raids into enemy territory. There are surely more options besides that as well, made considerably more plausible with the addition of a Jump Capable industrial.

Let's take this one first. If you are in a small/medium alliance in null-sec, you are going to have difficulty getting goods in and out of null-sec. Most alliances don't share runs and since you are a smaller alliance it is more difficult to get cynos ready and placed and timed than it is for a much larger alliance. Doable? Yes. Easy? No. Efficient? Depends.

Yes, having an alliance JF is great for alliance level needs. A good example would be belt ratting in null-sec (It's a good example because this has happened to me personally just about every time in null-sec). Typically, when belt ratting I run a Minmatar battleship. Most of my compatriots don't, they run the FOTM for PVE. This becomes a problem when the station we operate out of runs out of, say, Fusion Large ammo. Since.. maybe its myself or a few others use it, it isn't high on the priority list. Usually what happens is that it gets bumped off for more valuable or more important cargo. That is good for the alliance, but it isn't good for me. I am out of commission.

The same goes for replacement ships during the week. Perhaps I have the isk to buy a replacement ship and modules, but trying to set up a cyno chain and timing it with Black Frog may not be timely. And it may not be financially prudent either. Hard to spend tens of millions in travel costs when the ships you want to bring up probably don't break 100 mil in total.

Another good example, and this happened to me at least twice, was that in deep null-sec the person operating the JF, also dominated the market. Because they were part of the alliance, were considered a "valuable asset" (due only to the jump freighter), and was in the lines of communication, it was impossible to break his stranglehold on the market. Now a BR is great for resuppling yourself with limited ammo or modules.. but when you need ships, modules, fuel, etc.. it is no where near enough. And let's face the reality of it, most alliances are NOT good at their logistical chains. A person or corp can't be utterly dependent on a sole JF pilot.. and trying to outfit yourself using only BRs is.. insane. A Jump capable industrial, while not stepping on a JF's toes, will allow individual pilots and corporations more options to refit themselves in dangerous areas.




Cynos take time, effort, fuel, and other people (or alts) to get set up, so it doesn't replace the BR because there will always be a need to get small payloads in and out of null-sec, and I still think that most people who play Eve don't have multiple accounts. Plus, as both of us know.. a JF will still be far more efficient at hauling cargo than a Jump Capable industrial. So, if a person is running a lot of alts, likely using plex, then there going to have a JF anyways, not a Jump Capable industrial.

I am going to disagree here.

The BR already uses gate travel to slow boat to a destination, and more specifically to sneak into or through hostile areas.
I have three different BRs, (I am missing the Gallente one), and they are not at risk of being replaced here.
They are well suited for carrying 10Km3 or less only. (The crane only with very expensive rigs)

There is nothing suitable between them and the JF for practical logistic travel, both the Orca and DST needing to use gates, but too easily stopped and popped.

The only solution I see as practical, which does not overly duplicate the BR's gate crashing style by simply brute forcing rather than finesse, is to jump enable the DST like a mini freighter.

Even making it bridge capable through a BLOPs would help, except the BR already has this benefit, hence the BR already is jump capable this way.

The problem with them though is that people won't use them very much or at all. Let's look at each one of these:

The Nullifier idea, based off of the Tech 3 Cruisers, will be able to warp through a bubble like they do. The problem with that is that DSTs will still be slow and ungainly, and it wouldn't take long for a gate camp to overwhelm one with disruptors and scrams. The same with the MJD proposition, sure you can warp off 100km away.. but if the enemy fleet has either scram-fitted fast cruisers or frigates, you won't be able to make the jump anyways.. and they will easily be able to close distance and lock you down in the time it takes to spool of MJD (unless there is a MJD spool reduction bonus.. might be an option there).

The Combat idea, while I DO like it, suffers from the "n+1" problem anyways. You may shake off a single frigate, but any more and your slow and ungainly ship is rabbit food, so you are back to needing combat support, much like the DST does now. The only advantage to the Combat idea is that there are alternate uses that are still viable.

So, to me, the best option for these ships to finally get used, to finally have a real "niche" is for them to have the ability (using fuel just like the capitals) to jump. They still have to deal with the cynos, but that is the least difficult to get support for and you can be effective with just one additional pilot buddy and still be a time effective exercise.

Really good ideas OP.

I'd say allow use of the micro jump drive and give it the role bonus: interdiction nullified.

Keep in mind the MJD can still be disabled by a scram. Perhaps a Hull bonus could be reduces MJD spinup time by 5% per level.

Why on earth do you continue to bring up the BR? No one is proposing any changes to it. It would still be the fast and cloaky ship. How many DSTs do you really think you'd catch in a gate camp if it could just jump? About as many JFs as you catch, but with less payout. You seem to want the same things as we've been discussing, but with the use of a cyno? Listen, if the DST doesn't have to worry about dodging bubbles and can still use an MWD + Cloak (Not covert ops) it will be used, and you'll have your precious chance to catch one. Making it able to cyno out to where it needs to go, not counting the set up of the cynos, is much faster than the BR could hope to be. There, NOW you can start worrying about the use of the BR.

The DST's cargo space is fine. Maybe it could use a small increase since the T1s are pretty competitive now, but it's certainly more than any BR can hope to carry. You want a mini-freighter? Sure thing. Give the DST more cargo space, by all means, but don't try to make it a half-assed jump freighter. Suck it up, save your isk, and buy a real one.

"In its current form." Yeah, the entire point of this thread is to get that fixed. lol.

Do you not have an MWD + Cloak on your DST? It's no covert ops, but works just fine for low-sec runs.