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[Summit] PvE

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Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-08-28 23:03:01 UTC
Zerb Arus wrote:

Random (IN-SPACE) Encounters:
Back in the day when I started playing eve there was a mission that spawned some kilometres off real stargates. I struggled with that mission, someone saw it on his travels, and used that opportunity to show off his badass deimos and helped me. He even asked me for my fit and explained why hull+shiled+armor tanking isnt that great of an Idea

Nowadays the only social in-space interaction you will experience in PvE is getting ganked or ninja salvaged.


These got taken out because (pre can-flagging) mission runners complained it was too easy to steal all their hard earned loot. I believe there were also issues with missiles doing AoE damage and people flying disposable frigates into your explosions to get you concorded and people remote repping rats.

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#62 - 2013-08-29 06:07:45 UTC
Yeep wrote:

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.


Sadly there is an element of truth to this.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#63 - 2013-08-29 07:01:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Yeep wrote:

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.


Sadly there is an element of truth to this.


You make it sound as if PvErs in general had mattered at any point in the last 5 years, dominating the CSM and blasting CCP's endless efforts to improve our gameplay experience through engaging new ideas... not. Roll

Even now, the motto is "nerf them all" and I doubt we can make clear enough that the issue is not the existing content but the lack of additional PvE content.

Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.

But also PvE (as soloing, and hisec) is an activity many players enjoy and would like to enjoy further.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-08-29 07:59:57 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
- enemy "fleet" should consist of ships with diffrent roles unlike Incusrions/WH sites where all ships are webing/neuting/rr'ing and pointing and dealing tones of damage all at the same time


When it comes to Incursions, you don't have shipos webbing and neuting and RRing and pointing and dealing lots of damage at the same time. You have ships that are specialised for each task.

Max Kolonko wrote:
use actuall ship names in NPC ship name so that players can lear that SCYTHE is Logi, Moa mean strong shield tank, etc...


This is almost how it works in Incursions: a "Mara Paleo" is always a logistics cruiser.



mala parlo is not eve ship - its just made up ship name now. But, for example "Mara Paleo Guardian" (if thats what the ship was for example) would learn players (especially new to the game) roles of different ships in the game. Not the roles of different npc in particular mission.

Now for the multipurpose roles of npc - havent flied that much incursions, but that is how it works in WH - we have sleepless guardians that are great at everything.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2013-08-29 13:53:47 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeep wrote:

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.


Sadly there is an element of truth to this.


You make it sound as if PvErs in general had mattered at any point in the last 5 years, dominating the CSM and blasting CCP's endless efforts to improve our gameplay experience through engaging new ideas... not. Roll

Even now, the motto is "nerf them all" and I doubt we can make clear enough that the issue is not the existing content but the lack of additional PvE content.

Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.

But also PvE (as soloing, and hisec) is an activity many players enjoy and would like to enjoy further.


Which is more important to you: the money or the fun?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-08-29 14:47:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeep wrote:

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.


Sadly there is an element of truth to this.


You make it sound as if PvErs in general had mattered at any point in the last 5 years, dominating the CSM and blasting CCP's endless efforts to improve our gameplay experience through engaging new ideas... not. Roll

Even now, the motto is "nerf them all" and I doubt we can make clear enough that the issue is not the existing content but the lack of additional PvE content.

Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.

But also PvE (as soloing, and hisec) is an activity many players enjoy and would like to enjoy further.


Which is more important to you: the money or the fun?



exactly - as long as money making (PVE in our example) is tedius and boring it will always be looked at as something you "have to do" rather than "want to do"

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2013-08-29 15:01:22 UTC
What if you could make ISK for your main by playing Valkyrie?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aquinas II
PostgreSQL
#68 - 2013-08-29 15:05:07 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
...but it's unlikely that it is feasible. Very likely the misison editor is a legacy tool generally incompatible with the current builds, undocumented becasue cCP didn't used to document anything in the past, and maybe the last person who knew how to use it just left the company in the years since new missions were added.


You very well may be right about that. If it were possible without using too many resources, I think the payoff would be worth it, but I can appreciate that slogging through undocumented legacy code would be a cruel chore to ask of someone. I remember hearing somewhere that some of the corporate role code was implemented with bit masks--which made me shudder.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-08-29 16:30:14 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.



"Steady, mind numbing, cash cows". Congratulations, you just described everything that is wrong with the current state of PvE in two handy sentences.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#70 - 2013-08-29 19:03:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeep wrote:

Mission runners are their own worst enemies. The state of Eve PvE is a direct consequence of whiny mission runners wanting easily repeatable actions for easy ISK with no surprises and kicking up a shitstorm if anything interrupts their perfectly crafted routine.


Sadly there is an element of truth to this.


You make it sound as if PvErs in general had mattered at any point in the last 5 years, dominating the CSM and blasting CCP's endless efforts to improve our gameplay experience through engaging new ideas... not. Roll

Even now, the motto is "nerf them all" and I doubt we can make clear enough that the issue is not the existing content but the lack of additional PvE content.

Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.

But also PvE (as soloing, and hisec) is an activity many players enjoy and would like to enjoy further.


Which is more important to you: the money or the fun?


I work for money and play for fun. EVE is not fun, so i'm glad to pay less for it. If EVE was more enjoyable, I would be equally glad to pay more for it. Money is not the issue.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#71 - 2013-08-29 19:14:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
What if you could make ISK for your main by playing Valkyrie?


I seriously doubt I would like Valkyrie if it had the price tag attached to that. In order to let you earn a PLEX, it would megasuck and waste off the potential of just mindlessly losing ship after ship for fun at no real cost.

I've enjoyed Planetside 2 and certainly plan to give a try to War Thunder whenever I need to break from EVE again. I don't care of PvP, i do care of being humiliated and very specially wasting my time. TIME is the key word, i don't have time to be blasted by 50 idiots in a gank who then laugh at my anger for having wasted my precious time.

So if Valkyrie was about PvP and meant to allow a living from it, would be "serious" PvP and I would lose more than I earned, both menthally and time-wise.

No deal.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#72 - 2013-08-29 19:23:16 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Missions are a steady source of income many players rely on. They're mind-numbing but they also serve as cash cows.



"Steady, mind numbing, cash cows". Congratulations, you just described everything that is wrong with the current state of PvE in two handy sentences.


So let's say that PvE was Dynamical, challenging and less cash-cow.

Option 1: REPLACE curent PvE
Option 2: ADD ON TOP of current PvE

Guess which one i would choose proivded that I want more content, not less nor the same.

Missions as they are are OK, just throw a few new original missions each expansion.

But then add more PvE gameplay to people who have chosen to stay in hisec, or play solo, or use PvE to enjoy the game within their time constraints.

Missions are an answer to "I got one hour, what can I achieve in an hour?" More answers = better. Forced to beat it through different answers just because = bad.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#73 - 2013-08-29 19:52:29 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
What if you could make ISK for your main by playing Valkyrie?


I seriously doubt I would like Valkyrie if it had the price tag attached to that. In order to let you earn a PLEX, it would megasuck and waste off the potential of just mindlessly losing ship after ship for fun at no real cost.

I've enjoyed Planetside 2 and certainly plan to give a try to War Thunder whenever I need to break from EVE again. I don't care of PvP, i do care of being humiliated and very specially wasting my time. TIME is the key word, i don't have time to be blasted by 50 idiots in a gank who then laugh at my anger for having wasted my precious time.

So if Valkyrie was about PvP and meant to allow a living from it, would be "serious" PvP and I would lose more than I earned, both menthally and time-wise.

No deal.


Sorry, I wasn't asking you for "a deal". I meant the question for anyone to answer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#74 - 2013-08-29 20:02:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
What if you could make ISK for your main by playing Valkyrie?


I seriously doubt I would like Valkyrie if it had the price tag attached to that. In order to let you earn a PLEX, it would megasuck and waste off the potential of just mindlessly losing ship after ship for fun at no real cost.

I've enjoyed Planetside 2 and certainly plan to give a try to War Thunder whenever I need to break from EVE again. I don't care of PvP, i do care of being humiliated and very specially wasting my time. TIME is the key word, i don't have time to be blasted by 50 idiots in a gank who then laugh at my anger for having wasted my precious time.

So if Valkyrie was about PvP and meant to allow a living from it, would be "serious" PvP and I would lose more than I earned, both menthally and time-wise.

No deal.


Sorry, I wasn't asking you for "a deal". I meant the question for anyone to answer.


And I did answer. P

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#75 - 2013-08-29 20:26:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
What if you could make ISK for your main by playing Valkyrie?


Depends on the implementation, really. I don't see the point in larding it up with attempts to be part of the EVE Universe at the outset. Get the game solid first, get a good audience for it, and then start thinking about stuff like that. Who's going to sit around with an Oculus on their face waiting for some carrier somewhere to deploy drones? What if the first carrier to do so is red?

It would also depend on whether you were making ISK from other players (so ISK neutral, in terms of sinks and faucets) or making NPC-injected ISK (so, another faucet that would have to be balanced against).

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-08-30 11:35:26 UTC
I would be curious to know why Thukker Mix is available in high-sec but not something like Outer Ring Exavation?
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-09-02 15:20:22 UTC
In Guild Wars 2, there are "events" that pop up all over the place, and the players who happen to be nearby can participate in them.

I would like to see CCP develop something similar for Eve. Spontaneous PvE "events" that appear randomly for a very short period of time, all over New Eden.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#78 - 2013-09-04 16:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain StringfellowHawk
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
In Guild Wars 2, there are "events" that pop up all over the place, and the players who happen to be nearby can participate in them.

I would like to see CCP develop something similar for Eve. Spontaneous PvE "events" that appear randomly for a very short period of time, all over New Eden.


A lot of Games now Hold what they call "Dynamic Events" And So Does EVE. Incursions are known as a Dynamic Event since it moves around. But I am sure you want more Quicker moving Events, and so do I. Firefall, DEFIANCE, RIFT, GW2, and many other now have random events that pop all over the damn place with people rushing to them for 20-30 mins of Fun.

BTW sigs and Anoms are also Dynamic events. They move around to different areas. But a more Time based one would be Interesting. Have it even disrupt Trade lanes and areas. The Way incursions started out as. But instead of a Big incursion ordeal, Make it a larger group of Elite AI/Sleeper/incursion AI Pop up at some player grouped local and raise hell. Make it pop in a belt, at a station.. disrupt a gate-gate route.

In Freelancer OMG Pirates would Blap a mid point of your Warp route, force you to deal with them before you could move on again. Now I know we dont have Gates along our system routes to disrupt.. BUT Since Incursions can bring a carrier into hisec... Why not make randomly generated Pirates Drop a Warp disruption bubble at a mid point of an active route.. Gate from Perimeter to Jita or some low sec heavy traveled or even lightly traveled route and suddenly a Elite group of Rats Spawns at the mid point and drops a bubble. That would add more dynamic PVE. I know I would wake up suddenly if my Orca gets yanked from Warp and I am batphoning for assistance.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-09-04 16:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
In Guild Wars 2, there are "events" that pop up all over the place, and the players who happen to be nearby can participate in them.

I would like to see CCP develop something similar for Eve. Spontaneous PvE "events" that appear randomly for a very short period of time, all over New Eden.


A lot of Games now Hold what they call "Dynamic Events" And So Does EVE. Incursions are known as a Dynamic Event since it moves around. But I am sure you want more Quicker moving Events, and so do I. Firefall, DEFIANCE, RIFT, GW2, and many other now have random events that pop all over the damn place with people rushing to them for 20-30 mins of Fun.

BTW sigs and Anoms are also Dynamic events. They move around to different areas. But a more Time based one would be Interesting. Have it even disrupt Trade lanes and areas. The Way incursions started out as. But instead of a Big incursion ordeal, Make it a larger group of Elite AI/Sleeper/incursion AI Pop up at some player grouped local and raise hell. Make it pop in a belt, at a station.. disrupt a gate-gate route.

In Freelancer OMG Pirates would Blap a mid point of your Warp route, force you to deal with them before you could move on again. Now I know we dont have Gates along our system routes to disrupt.. BUT Since Incursions can bring a carrier into hisec... Why not make randomly generated Pirates Drop a Warp disruption bubble at a mid point of an active route.. Gate from Perimeter to Jita or some low sec heavy traveled or even lightly traveled route and suddenly a Elite group of Rats Spawns at the mid point and drops a bubble. That would add more dynamic PVE. I know I would wake up suddenly if my Orca gets yanked from Warp and I am batphoning for assistance.


Yes, this is what I am getting at.

I was thinking of something similar to an incursion, like a large battlefleet (up to several hundred or more rats of various ship types) that take over a system or constellation for a few hours, or even less. Tthese rats wouldn't be found in "rooms" like they are now with missions or incursions, but roam freely about space. They might appear around planets, stargates or even station undocks.

There could be a lot of isk to be made in fighting such a NPC fleet, as well of the bounties themselves, there could be a chance of rare BPC drops.

Such an event would require players in the area to interact with each other and get organised. Tackling such a large NPC fleet would also carry a large risk of losing whatever it is you were flying. I think if CCP could pull something like this off, it would be fantastic, and could totally revitalise PvE.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-09-04 16:56:39 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
In Guild Wars 2, there are "events" that pop up all over the place, and the players who happen to be nearby can participate in them.

I would like to see CCP develop something similar for Eve. Spontaneous PvE "events" that appear randomly for a very short period of time, all over New Eden.



Hell yeah, some NPC Dred Guristas cyno's in a fleet to land right on top of whomever is being the biggest and baddest jewbear in the system....bring back the Doomsday effect where everyone on the grid gets nuked.

Now that would be for some PVE content.