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Buff blaster damage by 10%, tracking by 5% at the minimum.

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2013-09-04 13:05:06 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:
The only thing the railgun fit does worse is solo pvp and self tackle, and the Deimos doesn't active tank so as a solo pvper it's a ganker only, and again not worth considering for game balance.


Confirming Deimos doesn't active tank, it simply doesn't have the capacitor, signature, slot layout, resists or hull bonus to pull it off.

:(





.
Ariel Dawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-09-04 13:26:03 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:


That Eagle does not have drones however and will absolutely lose to a deimos at 0km, but ONLY if the fight starts at 0km. if the Deimos does not warp in on the Eagle he will lose 100% of the time because the eagle will hit MWD, hit keep at range, peg you for at least 10 to 15 seconds with railguns while you close, your drones will barely scratch his shield and if you're 1600mm fit you'll never catch him and if you're 800mm fit you'll be dead before you arrive.

The deimos is **** unless you warp in @ zero, and it's **** then anyways unless there isn't anyone shooting back with any sort of determination. If you warp in solo on an idiot I will concede that you will likely win, however that hardly speaks well to blaster balance in the grand scheme of things.

TL;DR: If you fly a blaster deimos you aren't good at math, if you fly a railgun deimos then hopefully you just haven't trained for an Eagle yet. The only reason to fly a deimos however is stupidity or poorly allocated SP.


Deimos can fit a very very strong MAAR/MAR tank that tanks around 700 DPS as well as dishing out around 600 DPS with blasters. The eagle, shooting kinetic/thermal at a Deimos, is not going to do very well at all.
Zane Lowe
Our Sanctum
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2013-09-04 13:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zane Lowe
If you lose to a rail eagle in a blaster deimos you really need to reconsider PVPing. Hint: it's not the ship that is bad at PVP.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#24 - 2013-09-04 13:52:21 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
If anything, slightly buff Medium ACs. That's about the only medium turrets that I would change currently.


This, maybe HMLs need a look in too, they seem fairly marginal these days.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-09-04 15:05:52 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
If anything, slightly buff Medium ACs. That's about the only medium turrets that I would change currently.


This, maybe HMLs need a look in too, they seem fairly marginal these days.

well who would have thought.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#26 - 2013-09-04 19:20:59 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:
Anyone who thinks that ganking a lone guy in your blaster boat and getting top DPS in your gang because you were at 0 on the gate when he warped through is "PVP" is deluded. In a close fight between gangs where BOTH sides have a chance at victory, range and speed are the deciding factors. Tactics win battles, and speed = tactics. Every second your deimos spends moving instead of shooting is eleven seconds of firing time it has to have in order to make up for the railguns that don't have to move, or which can shoot a new target whilst approaching it.

Yes, at 0 meters against a blaster boat most any ship will lose. The reason a deimos sucks however has never been due to damage, but rather projection. If you got to 0km on someone I would almost say that by necessity it wasn't a real fight. In a real fight the blaster boat burning towards someone is primary, and if they aren't then the fight was decided before it began by a superior sized, positioned, or outfitted gang.

A deimos isn't a good ship because it can get top damage in a 15 man gatecamp killing unscouted battlecruisers.



That's why you pick your fights solo.

If you are chasing somebody down that has rails and started at range, you're doing it wrong.

If we're talking about a fleet fight, and you are burning at an enemy sniper fleet at their optimals with a brawler fleet, your FC is doing it wrong.

Medium long range turrets were a joke before this patch, now they are finally viable.
Alexander Golitsyn
The Interstellar House of Gruel
#27 - 2013-09-04 19:54:51 UTC
people need to stop measuring weapon damage as dps only. tracking, weapon signature, weapon ranges and falloff ranges are equally, if not more important than dps.

people insisting on their mach doing 1k dps with autocannons when they spend the entire time at 40% - 50% falloff are idiots. are you idiots as well? no? well then stop acting like it.
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
#28 - 2013-09-04 19:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Smith
If you are talking about ANYTHING besides warping in at zero on a solo gank, you're doing it wrong if you're in a deimos. THUS the ship is ****. I'm not saying you can't warp in at zero and get a kill in it, I'm saying you can do that in any ship.

That's why blasters suck. If you aren't warping in at zero they suck. If you are warping in at whatever range you want, you're collecting a kill not getting a kill. Any ship can collect a kill you've already earned, fewer can actually earn kills. Deimos has no earning potential.

As for the eagle fitting I mislinked it, it does 480 with CNAM not spike, Spike does 280 @ approximately 160+15.

"oh but you forgot about tracking" people say, well, tbh if you can get to me at zero then I can keep you at zero transversal it's only fair. I'm much more likely in a sniper to be able to mitigate transversal in a real fight than a brawler is realistically able to warp to zero.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#29 - 2013-09-04 20:21:17 UTC
Then choose a ship that suits your playstyle if you can't find a playstyle that suits the ship. I'm sure plenty of other people will manage.

Oh god.
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#30 - 2013-09-04 20:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Asuka Smith wrote:
If you are talking about ANYTHING besides warping in at zero on a solo gank, you're doing it wrong if you're in a deimos. THUS the ship is ****. I'm not saying you can't warp in at zero and get a kill in it, I'm saying you can do that in any ship.

That's why blasters suck. If you aren't warping in at zero they suck. If you are warping in at whatever range you want, you're collecting a kill not getting a kill. Any ship can collect a kill you've already earned, fewer can actually earn kills. Deimos has no earning potential.

As for the eagle fitting I mislinked it, it does 480 with CNAM not spike, Spike does 280 @ approximately 160+15.

"oh but you forgot about tracking" people say, well, tbh if you can get to me at zero then I can keep you at zero transversal it's only fair. I'm much more likely in a sniper to be able to mitigate transversal in a real fight than a brawler is realistically able to warp to zero.



So it is, of course, impossible to do other things like get warp in points from interceptors.

Why would you ever use blasters in fleet fights anyway? Every other short range weapon system / brawling ship setup is going to suffer from the same problems....

The Deimos excels in small gang work. It does pretty damn well if you just strap rails onto it. I don't understand what the issue is.

EDIT: Try the Deimos like you would fit a Zealot; 200's, MWD / booster / MAR. 572dps at 15 + 24 / 2106 MS / 190 HPS / 50m3 drone bay.
Comto Aldent
Safe break
#31 - 2013-09-04 22:01:59 UTC
It's like the choice between torps and cruise missiles, except you don't have to worry about tracking with those.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-04 23:29:35 UTC
As a dedicated Megathron pilot, I approve of buffing blaster damage for no other reason than the following:

What is best? To crush the enemies ship, and hear the lamentations of the ransom chat.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-09-05 18:25:43 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Not really.

Fozzie or another balancing dev explained the reasoning behind it.

Short range guns have a bit more DPS, massive advantage in tracking, have bigger clips (less reloads is what I mean), use less capacitor, use less PWG/CPU.

Long range guns have a bit less DPS, a whole lot worse tracking, smaller clips (you gotta reload more often), use more capacitor and use more PWG/CPU.

I did two different Deimos fits for both Rail and Blaster versions, both fitted with 1600mms.

I need to use an ancillary to make the rails fit, they do 100 less DPS, have abysimal tracking compared to Ions and can't tackle.

It's all trade-offs. + the blaster Deimos isn't completely helpless vs a semi-competent frig pilot.




Well....I can't wait to get 850 paper dps with my HM's Tengu like hams one but erm...doesn't work really like that?

What I'm saying is that this med rails buff is not right, imho of course. Tracking nerf is the worst thing you can do to hybrids and buffing paper dps on them by tweaking base gun dmg doesn't change that much from previous status, yes you'll put bigger holes but only when you manage to hit something, even arties are more interesting despite major ships using them DON'T have tracking bonus.

Again it's personal opinion (which means it doesn't count anyway) but rails didn't needed that tracking nerf, they needed less gun dmg multiplier, keep same tracking but increase ammo dmg (T2 and T1)

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-09-05 18:27:23 UTC
Comto Aldent wrote:
It's like the choice between torps and cruise missiles, except you don't have to worry about tracking with those.



Still, many crying about use fits without a single Tp....yep as stupid as it looks it's real.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
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