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Balance, don't nerf.

Author
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-11-14 04:42:11 UTC
It seems like every whiney spaz comes out of the woodwork whenever expansions are due. What's the one thing that they have in common? They all want to nerf someone they think is OP. Regardless of the facts that the things they want nerfed may have just been "balanced." They don't really care about anything being balanced. All that they want is for whatever it is that THEY fly to become the new fotm.

Instead of wanting whatever it was that touched you in your no no spot to be nerfed, maybe the community as a whole should instead focusing on balancing.

Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you? They were balanced and now Amarr and Minmatar are on a pretty even keel. I don't fly Caldari so I can't speak for them. Gallente, however, seems to be the one most bitched about these days. I also fly Gallente and I love their "in the face" style of combat. They don't have the range of Amarr nor the gtfo ability that Minmatar has. For some people, this means that they are underpowered. While I don't agree with this, if enough people want them to be "fixed" then maybe they DO need to be fixed.

To "fix" Gallente, guess what..... you don't nerf another race! This won't fix anything, it will only leave you with two broken races. Instead focus on the two things that Gallente excel at. In the face damage and drone damage.

Don't remove Gallente's niche roll. It's a fun roll to fly. And while it might not be the easier roll to play, those who know how to play it can do amazing things with it.

Please, for the love of God, don't make every ship and every weapon system the same. That's part of what makes Eve such a great game. I like being able to have the variety that I have in this game.

That is all. Troll away all you haters. The people who actually play this game and matter know what I'm talking about.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2011-11-14 04:52:01 UTC
The funny thing about balance is that it is in the eye of the beholder. We wouldn't be having this conversation if we could expect tweaks or balance patches on a regular basis. What Eve gets instead is an involuntary spasm every 2-3 years.

I remember those as:
Amarr buff
Nano Nerf
Projectile Buff
Supers and Sov change
And now ???

I'm sure others can point out more. But in the five years I've been playing - that's not a whole lot. So when CCP does move it's very natural very everyone to put their two isk in to make sure they don't miss the boat. And that's just human.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-11-14 04:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
I like these "don't nerf me bro!" threads because they are written by the kind of poster who should know better, but sperg anyway.

For the record, I give no fucks about nerfing or buffing. I've been nerf-proof for years now. If CCP wants to balance things there are obviously ways to go about doing it from both directions.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-11-14 05:09:46 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
I like these "don't nerf me bro!" threads because they are written by the kind of poster who should know better, but sperg anyway.

For the record, I give no fucks about nerfing or buffing. I've been nerf-proof for years now. If CCP wants to balance things there are obviously ways to go about doing it from both directions.


Says the alt.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-11-14 05:16:13 UTC
Bromance me with your sweet main dude.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#6 - 2011-11-14 05:18:45 UTC
"Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you?"

Well these days, if you fly Caldari (in PvP mostly), everyone laughs at you. If you fly Gallente you might get chuckled at, but... Probably not in hostility because you can still occasionally pull off kills. Though people generally don't say much about Caldari because they're apparently the undisputed kings of PvE, which, while I guess having a strength somewhere rather than nowhere is good, I'm not fond of. I'd rather have equal footing in PvE and PvP than be overwhelmingly good in one and overwhelmingly bad in the other.

"But what about drake?" It's a scrub ship. You give them to the low SP guys who can't/haven't crosstrained minmatar, from my experience.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2011-11-14 05:25:17 UTC
The Gallente buff so far:

Blasters have 20% more tracking and 5% more damage.
Rails have 10% more damage and 5% more tracking
Less cap use.
Much friendlier fitting requirements
5 second reload on ammo
Much smaller ammo
Gallente ships are slightly more agile and faster.
T2 drone upgrades

Rumors:
Light and medium webber drones on chaos build.
Boosters on chaos build with lesser benefits but no side effects. Booster benefits include less cap useage, more optimal, more falloff, more tracking, a smaller signature radius, etc.

In short, I can see how some of these improvements would build on themselves. But are they enough? And are you willing to walk away from the table when you know CCP doesn't visit it very often?

m0cking bird
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-11-14 06:06:32 UTC
Yeah! Caldari are the most skill intensive race. Something I've started bringing up 2 years ago, when most believed Minmatar was and still do apparently. I would really like CCP to come up with a new weapon system (lol) for them or replace all turret ships with missile ships.

Most of the NERF Minmatar crowd have no legs to stand on. Not worth the time to argue. Although it is funny when they come into threads that have nothing to do with pvp or Minmatar related and turn it into a NERF Minmatar or Minmatar are evil or I hate black people (ROFL)!

LOVE THIS GAME SOMETIMES...
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#9 - 2011-11-14 06:47:32 UTC
I say let them whine great way to past time shuffling forums.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#10 - 2011-11-14 17:48:08 UTC
Title of this thread makes no sense. To balance a game, you have to nerf stuff on occasion. End of. If you only boost things to match other things, you get a power creep that breaks more things than it can ever fix.

thhief ghabmoef

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-11-15 07:44:30 UTC
Aglais wrote:
"But what about drake?" It's a scrub ship. You give them to the low SP guys who can't/haven't crosstrained minmatar, from my experience.


Drakes are pro, you don't know wtf is up.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-11-15 14:32:27 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
And now ???



Hybrids (not) rebalancing. Awesome noob buffs.

Now that we are finished, please let me fit my Tornado and Angel ships peacefully, thx.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-11-15 14:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
omg this thread
matar qq in short : " dont nerf my precious"

"Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you?"
no as it was never the case , they werent the best choice for everything ,not like atm
they were still the best for small gang roaming or camping

"Instead of wanting whatever it was that touched you in your no no spot to be nerfed, maybe the community as a whole should instead focusing on balancing."
imho balancing means greatly cut back matar , so they will have drawbacks too,we dont want to nerf matar , we want them not overpower the other races

"To "fix" Gallente, guess what..... you don't nerf another race!"
yes if that another race completly taken over gallente niche

grow some balls and let the opness go

"Don't remove Gallente's niche roll. It's a fun roll to fly." yeah until you try out a matar ship which does the same and much more

"Please, for the love of God, don't make every ship and every weapon system the same"
yes pls make them differ ,like gallente/blasters sux and matar/ac owns , best difference ever

"I like being able to have the variety that I have in this game."
this completly contradicts that you want to keep matar to answer every problem , now that 70% flies matar ships for pvp +some drakes and abaddons with arty lol..., yeah variety is rly noticable

"The people who actually play this game and matter know what I'm talking about."
matter ??
yeah we know you dont want to loose your op ships
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2011-11-15 15:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruah Piskonit
balance is tough, homogeneity is the only true answer to balance.

I would like to see some more variety come back with more focused buffs for hybrids and a few changes to the other weapon systems to really define them.

but its not easy for sure.

plus, eve is not actually a pilot skill intensive game. it may seem like it is, but its not. Not when compared to games like aces high 2. now thats skill there.

for the record - I am not for Amarr to be FOTM - that's actually the last thing I want. But i o think that overwhelming FOTM ships and races need to be analyzed to see 'why' they are - and come up with appropriate and subtle changes to correct that.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-11-16 04:40:47 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
omg this thread
matar qq in short : " dont nerf my precious"

"Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you?"
no as it was never the case , they werent the best choice for everything ,not like atm
they were still the best for small gang roaming or camping

"Instead of wanting whatever it was that touched you in your no no spot to be nerfed, maybe the community as a whole should instead focusing on balancing."
imho balancing means greatly cut back matar , so they will have drawbacks too,we dont want to nerf matar , we want them not overpower the other races

"To "fix" Gallente, guess what..... you don't nerf another race!"
yes if that another race completly taken over gallente niche

grow some balls and let the opness go

"Don't remove Gallente's niche roll. It's a fun roll to fly." yeah until you try out a matar ship which does the same and much more

"Please, for the love of God, don't make every ship and every weapon system the same"
yes pls make them differ ,like gallente/blasters sux and matar/ac owns , best difference ever

"I like being able to have the variety that I have in this game."
this completly contradicts that you want to keep matar to answer every problem , now that 70% flies matar ships for pvp +some drakes and abaddons with arty lol..., yeah variety is rly noticable

"The people who actually play this game and matter know what I'm talking about."
matter ??
yeah we know you dont want to loose your op ships


Your complete lack of any punctuation or capitalization made this one of the most difficult replies I've ever had to try to read. So I didn't.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#16 - 2011-11-16 05:00:13 UTC
ElCholo wrote:

Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you? They were balanced and now Amarr and Minmatar are on a pretty even keel.


Trolling is prohibited on forums. Amarr aren't even close to Matari atm. It's clearly Minmatar > Caldari/Amarr > Gallente.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-11-16 05:08:12 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
ElCholo wrote:

Remember the days when if you flew a Minmatar everyone laughed at you? They were balanced and now Amarr and Minmatar are on a pretty even keel.


Trolling is prohibited on forums. Amarr aren't even close to Matari atm. It's clearly Minmatar > Caldari/Amarr > Gallente.


So, stop trolling then.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#18 - 2011-11-16 05:12:18 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The funny thing about balance is that it is in the eye of the beholder. We wouldn't be having this conversation if we could expect tweaks or balance patches on a regular basis. What Eve gets instead is an involuntary spasm every 2-3 years.

I remember those as:
Amarr buff
Nano Nerf
Projectile Buff
Supers and Sov change
And now ???

I'm sure others can point out more. But in the five years I've been playing - that's not a whole lot. So when CCP does move it's very natural very everyone to put their two isk in to make sure they don't miss the boat. And that's just human.


I'm highly confident that we'll be seeing continued responsiveness from CCP. So yes, I'm willing to let things try to even out without asking for the whole world and to make my chosen race uber FOTM.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2011-11-16 05:12:57 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
I like these "don't nerf me bro!" threads because they are written by the kind of poster who should know better, but sperg anyway.

For the record, I give no fucks about nerfing or buffing. I've been nerf-proof for years now. If CCP wants to balance things there are obviously ways to go about doing it from both directions.


You are lying. You have repeatedly championed nerfing Minmatar.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-11-16 05:18:13 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


You are lying. You have repeatedly championed nerfing Minmatar.



"Championed," is a bit much. I've definitely pissed you off though, and that pleases me much more than buff or nerfs ever could.
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