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Less low slots on the new haulers please.

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Oggat
The Adam's Family
#21 - 2013-09-04 03:27:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just alpha the damn thing, its not like they are going to fit a tank.


I've tried every tank fit I could come up with for a Bestower.

Stick with the stabs.
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-09-04 03:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexar Mundi
Peter Raptor wrote:
I see so now catching haulers will ACTUALLY make you think and plan, unlike before, and you're sad about that?? Roll

how can you plan an attack against a hauler you find randomly in a WH in the middle of doing PI?

The only good argument I have seen so far is the alpha damage one. The rest of you I even wonder if you know what a WH even is lol.

For those of you who have no idea how things go down in a WH I will explain it for you.


Step 1. Scan for a WH
Step 2. You find WH and check it's time/mass to see if it's stable.
Step 3. Jump in WH BM the inside and check D scan and hope you find something
Step 4. click Orbit and mwd so you burn away from the hole and cloak. (so you don't run off the locals)
Step 5. Warp around and hope you find something on scan
Step 6. If you find something on scan to shoot, hey great better find it fast because it's probably warping back to the POS, if you don't find anything to shoot find another WH and repeat.

Of corse I left out checking the J tag for the system info because if you have been in W-space long enough you can tell what type of effects it has by how the system looks.


How do you plan for something if you don't know what you will find?
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-09-04 03:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexar Mundi
baltec1 wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
I see so now catching haulers will ACTUALLY make you think and plan, unlike before, and you're sad about that?? Roll


This requires the haulers to fit things other than cargo extenders.

With a 67,500m3 PI hold why would you need to extend the 550m3 cargo hold?
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#24 - 2013-09-04 03:45:06 UTC
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
I see so now catching haulers will ACTUALLY make you think and plan, unlike before, and you're sad about that?? Roll

how can you plan an attack against a hauler you find randomly in a WH in the middle of doing PI?

The only good argument I have seen so far is the alpha damage one. The rest of you I even wonder if you know what a WH even is lol.

For those of you who have no idea how things go down in a WH I will explain it for you.


Step 1. Scan for a WH
Step 2. You find WH and check it's time/mass to see if it's stable.
Step 3. Jump in WH BM the inside and check D scan and hope you find something
Step 4. click Orbit and mwd so you burn away from the hole and cloak. (so you don't run off the locals)
Step 5. Warp around and hope you find something
Step 6. If you find something to shoot Hey great better find it fast because it's probably warping back to the POS, if you don't find anything to shoot find another WH and repeat.

Of corse I left out checking the J tag for the system info because if you have been in W-space long enough you can tell what type of effects it has by how the system looks.


How do you plan for something if you don't know what you will find?


My guess was, he was farming his own POCO's with an alt.
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-09-04 03:48:30 UTC
Oggat wrote:
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
I see so now catching haulers will ACTUALLY make you think and plan, unlike before, and you're sad about that?? Roll

how can you plan an attack against a hauler you find randomly in a WH in the middle of doing PI?

The only good argument I have seen so far is the alpha damage one. The rest of you I even wonder if you know what a WH even is lol.

For those of you who have no idea how things go down in a WH I will explain it for you.


Step 1. Scan for a WH
Step 2. You find WH and check it's time/mass to see if it's stable.
Step 3. Jump in WH BM the inside and check D scan and hope you find something
Step 4. click Orbit and mwd so you burn away from the hole and cloak. (so you don't run off the locals)
Step 5. Warp around and hope you find something
Step 6. If you find something to shoot Hey great better find it fast because it's probably warping back to the POS, if you don't find anything to shoot find another WH and repeat.

Of corse I left out checking the J tag for the system info because if you have been in W-space long enough you can tell what type of effects it has by how the system looks.


How do you plan for something if you don't know what you will find?


My guess was, he was farming his own POCO's with an alt.

Sadly there are people who are like that.
Claude Olerie
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-09-04 04:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Claude Olerie
-ultra cheap
-many warp stabs
-lots of agility (rig slots with low friction nozzle joints)
-oversized bay

First ventures, now the Epithal (itty3) is getting the same treatment.

Both of these ships are totally out of balance with any other ships of their class. This sort of ship specialization is T2 domain, not ultra cheap T1's. They simply have too much bang for their buck. They should be easier to catch, have less cargospace or be an expensive T2 ship.

PI has become nearly risk free.

Im going to have to fit 2 faction scrams to my tackle ships, which is pretty rediculous.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#27 - 2013-09-04 04:58:33 UTC
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Dear CCP,

Warp stabs are not the answer to your care bear problem. I just checked out these new haulers, and found they have plenty of low slots that use to be full of cargo expanders. Now that cargo expanders won't really do much for these new PI, mineral, and ore holds people will start filling every low they have with warp core stabs. I would like to either see an agility penalty added to warp core stabs or less low slots on these new haulers so i can at least catch them without having both a faction and T2 scram taking up 2 of my mids. It's bad enough I have to fit a warp scram worth the price of my ship to catch most W-space dwellers but to have 2 mid slots taken up by warp scrams is a bit much.

Best wishes
Lexar Mundi



(Yes I know bubbles are great, but when most W-space dwellers log off at the first sign of combat now days and you don't see them again for weeks.... Also the fact indy ships are... err sorry use to be fun to hunt solo in a scan ship with poor dps yeah those days have ended. There will be a lot less solo WH roamers after the last few patches we have seen.)


Stop tackling with rifters

Get a HIC

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#28 - 2013-09-04 04:59:22 UTC
Claude Olerie wrote:
-ultra cheap
-many warp stabs
-lots of agility (rig slots with low friction nozzle joints)
-oversized bay

First ventures, now the Epithal (itty3) is getting the same treatment.

Both of these ships are totally out of balance with any other ships of their class. This sort of ship specialization is T2 domain, not ultra cheap T1's. They simply have too much bang for their buck. They should be easier to catch, have less cargospace or be an expensive T2 ship.

PI has become nearly risk free.

Im going to have to fit 2 faction scrams to my tackle ships, which is pretty rediculous.



Or you could focus script a broadsword...
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#29 - 2013-09-04 05:11:37 UTC
To the above posters suggesting HICs, I'm sure the OP already thought of that, but can't get close to them without a cov-ops cloak because they're all obsessive-compulsive d-scan clickers.

Who put the goat in there?
Mr Pragmatic
#30 - 2013-09-04 05:11:49 UTC
Claude Olerie wrote:
-ultra cheap
-many warp stabs
-lots of agility (rig slots with low friction nozzle joints)
-oversized bay

First ventures, now the Epithal (itty3) is getting the same treatment.

Both of these ships are totally out of balance with any other ships of their class. This sort of ship specialization is T2 domain, not ultra cheap T1's. They simply have too much bang for their buck. They should be easier to catch, have less cargospace or be an expensive T2 ship.

PI has become nearly risk free.

Im going to have to fit 2 faction scrams to my tackle ships, which is pretty rediculous.



Deal with it? Straight

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#31 - 2013-09-04 08:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
Bumping, a MWD Prot goes pretty quick so you should get a pretty good bump against a Indy. Even with 3 Low friction rigs and max skills (not very many PI chars have max skills) they have an align of 7 secs (plus turning ect) so if you are cloaked just warp to 10k, uncloak and get to max speed then bump and shoot.

They can have about a 10-12k tank so 1 bump should give you enough time to kill one with a prot, maybe a couple with a pilgrim. With a pilgrim you don't have to worry about tracking ect so you can have more time to focus on the bumping.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-09-04 08:10:01 UTC
Has anyone said “fewer” yet?
Lexar Mundi wrote:
With a 67,500m3 PI hold why would you need to extend the 550m3 cargo hold?

Because then you can get 69k m³ into it rather than a paltry and useless 68k, obviously!
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#33 - 2013-09-04 08:37:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Has anyone said “fewer” yet?
Lexar Mundi wrote:
With a 67,500m3 PI hold why would you need to extend the 550m3 cargo hold?

Because then you can get 69k m³ into it rather than a paltry and useless 68k, obviously!

OR you can carry 2 command centres to get that PI started!

Who put the goat in there?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#34 - 2013-09-04 08:38:00 UTC
lets talk about blockade runners in lowsec or cloaky t3 nullified whatevers... those are impossible to catch. I thought we were against that?

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2013-09-04 08:55:07 UTC
Gogela wrote:
lets talk about blockade runners in lowsec or cloaky t3 nullified whatevers... those are impossible to catch. I thought we were against that?

Arguably, cloak-nulli-T3s are easier to catch in lowsec than elsewhere, since lowsec camps don't rely on bubbles to all their work and rather expect that the target will be able to pull some kind of cloaking trick.

They're still cruisers and not particularly agile ones (unless you mod them up, but that makes them squishier) so you if your tacklers are good enough…
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#36 - 2013-09-04 09:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Demica Diaz
I think problem is not in hauler low slot ammount but in WCS itself. You can fit as much as you want them on none combat ship and with no penalty, because if you plan to fly ship that runs away, means you dont need to target stuff. (Most of the time).

Simple and fun fix for WCS: Make it cycle. One cycle removes single disrupt. Two cycles remove single scram. Two WSC's single cycle removes single scram and so on.

For example just like armor repairer, once it has done cycle you get armor back as "reward" for waiting those secounds. Same way WCS's would work.

Targeting delay would still be part of that module. But this time its not something you slap on ship an forget. Bear
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-09-04 09:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
How about you use a bubble like a normal person and stop bitching about your ez kills.

put a bubble up in W-space and see what happens. The people who live there won't log on for a week and then a week later will use a bomber to kill it. (because they can cloak at the first sign of trouble to hide from big bad wormhole people who PvP.)


Then again, in your own words from another thread...

#42Posted: 2013.07.12 15:12
Quote:
Put a WCS on your mining barge. Problem solved.


If only there were ships that can still point somebody no matter how many stabs they had. I would call them the infinite Point if they existed. Maybe they can change the current HIC's to make use of some sort of script that will allow people to change the bubble of HIC to a dedicated Point?

I need to post that in the features and Ideas thread... sound like an awesome idea.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-09-04 09:49:15 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
How about you use a bubble like a normal person and stop bitching about your ez kills.

put a bubble up in W-space and see what happens. The people who live there won't log on for a week and then a week later will use a bomber to kill it. (because they can cloak at the first sign of trouble to hide from big bad wormhole people who PvP.)


Then again, in your own words from another thread...

#42Posted: 2013.07.12 15:12
Quote:
Put a WCS on your mining barge. Problem solved.


If only there were ships that can still point somebody no matter how many stabs they had. I would call them the infinite Point if they existed. Maybe they can change the current HIC's to make use of some sort of script that will allow people to change the bubble of HIC to a dedicated Point?

I need to post that in the features and Ideas thread... sound like an awesome idea.

So when you do PI I take it you never check D-scan. Man you must lose a lot of haulers.

Even if i put a cloak on my HIC I would have to sit at 1 POCO and wait to see if i was lucky enough to pick the right planet. There is a lovely thing we call a Covert Ops cloak, and it lets us warp while cloaked. We can fit them on T3s and some other combat ships to make sure people don't know were hunting them.... Yeah we can't fit those on HICs smart guy.

Give me a Covert Ops HIC and I will stop crying about these new PI haulers with 4 warp stabs on them.
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#39 - 2013-09-04 09:49:52 UTC
Bumptackle.

Prot should be able to kill the thing within seconds.
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-09-04 09:52:11 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
I think problem is not in hauler low slot ammount but in WCS itself. You can fit as much as you want them on none combat ship and with no penalty, because if you plan to fly ship that runs away, means you dont need to target stuff. (Most of the time).

Simple and fun fix for WCS: Make it cycle. One cycle removes single disrupt. Two cycles remove single scram. Two WSC's single cycle removes single scram and so on.

For example just like armor repairer, once it has done cycle you get armor back as "reward" for waiting those secounds. Same way WCS's would work.

Targeting delay would still be part of that module. But this time its not something you slap on ship an forget. Bear

Or just make it to where you can only fit 2 WCS per ship. I don't mind fitting a 130mil 3 point warp scram. It's the hours of looking for something to kill, and having it fit to where only 2 ships (non covert ops) in he game can stop it.