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Time for captcha ingame?
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#21 - 2013-09-03 19:25:46 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Actually I support the idea, and I also have hundreds of market orders across three characters. As long as it only kicks in after so many edits to the price in such a timeframe. (Would help remove/hinder bots and the 0.01 isk battles somewhat.) Under those circumstances I support it.

Yeah... that won't work.

The technology for capcha assumes human understanding with no automated equivalent.

Assuming things like that is never a good idea.

The answer really is, if you can't beat em, join em.

Quote:
automate the update process.

Put simply, have an option to make your selling item automatically be 1% or 1 ISK below all other competition, whichever is the larger amount.

Everyone wins.

Now, for those who missed the wicked humor here, imagine if two of these were active at the same time against each other.

The solution for this is to set a base cost, where the price will not drop below.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#22 - 2013-09-03 19:46:43 UTC
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
Zappity wrote:
You have dozens of orders? I have hundreds. And I definitely do not want captcha. The market interface is awful enough as it is.


How is that market bot program working out for ya?


I have never used any sort of bot. I never 0.01 isk. And I still don't want captcha.

But tell me this: how do you know it is a bot? The fact that you are being 0.01 isked does not equal market bot. After all, that is exactly what you are doing to someone else. And I bet they are cussing about their bot opponent too!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-09-04 07:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tivook OneManSlave
Zappity wrote:
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
Zappity wrote:
You have dozens of orders? I have hundreds. And I definitely do not want captcha. The market interface is awful enough as it is.


How is that market bot program working out for ya?


I have never used any sort of bot. I never 0.01 isk. And I still don't want captcha.

But tell me this: how do you know it is a bot? The fact that you are being 0.01 isked does not equal market bot. After all, that is exactly what you are doing to someone else. And I bet they are cussing about their bot opponent too!


I change my orders.. I dunno 20 times per 24 hours? A couple of times in the morning, a couple of times at work and a couple of times in the evening.

This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.

Nobody, nobody can be at the computer 24/7. Even if someone is there 16/7, he sure isn't editing his market orders around the clock because who in their right mind would do that.

If undercutting the competition by 0.01 isk no matter what time it is isn't a pretty clear sign of a bot to you then I don't know what argument could make you think otherwise.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#24 - 2013-09-04 07:53:06 UTC
Only if captcha is only required at a maximum of once per 10 minutes, if you are trying to get captcha for every single market order then I am going to call you really really bad names.

It would break immersion though.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#25 - 2013-09-04 08:16:11 UTC
In what way the bot is working? Does it always change price by 0.01 ISK and doesn't look for a minimal price it can set? Maybe if we could know how it works, we could outsmart it, that can be done, because its just a stupid program.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Aaron Kyoto
Frozen Silver.
Nomad Alliance
#26 - 2013-09-04 08:46:40 UTC
God no. It's hard enough to read web captchas.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#27 - 2013-09-04 09:00:05 UTC
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
Zappity wrote:
You have dozens of orders? I have hundreds. And I definitely do not want captcha. The market interface is awful enough as it is.


How is that market bot program working out for ya?


I have never used any sort of bot. I never 0.01 isk. And I still don't want captcha.

But tell me this: how do you know it is a bot? The fact that you are being 0.01 isked does not equal market bot. After all, that is exactly what you are doing to someone else. And I bet they are cussing about their bot opponent too!


I change my orders.. I dunno 20 times per 24 hours? A couple of times in the morning, a couple of times at work and a couple of times in the evening.

This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.

Nobody, nobody can be at the computer 24/7. Even if someone is there 16/7, he sure isn't editing his market orders around the clock because who in their right mind would do that.

If undercutting the competition by 0.01 isk no matter what time it is isn't a pretty clear sign of a bot to you then I don't know what argument could make you think otherwise.


What this actually means is that Mr Bot is online and changing market orders at the same times that you are. Why is that so far fetched?

I'm sure that market bots exist but would prefer to live with them if the alternative is captcha.

You should think about a trading strategy that doesn't rely on 0.01 isk wars too.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2013-09-04 09:02:02 UTC
If it's a bot, use it against him. Isk war him down cheap then buy him out and raise your own prices back up so you make significant margin again on the cheap stock of his you bought out.
Aaron Kyoto
Frozen Silver.
Nomad Alliance
#29 - 2013-09-04 09:13:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
If it's a bot, use it against him. Isk war him down cheap then buy him out and raise your own prices back up so you make significant margin again on the cheap stock of his you bought out.


Unless it's programmed to do exactly the same thing.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#30 - 2013-09-04 09:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
BTW, who are those "some individuals"? Is there someone in particular who you accuse of boting?

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#31 - 2013-09-04 11:17:07 UTC
There's more mining bots than market bots, so I'd rather see this for mining.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#32 - 2013-09-04 11:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: May O'Neez
When I'm online, it happens to me to change some orders every 5 minutes if the others do the same. I call it "market pvp" Pirate

With some insense you can sometimes fool people. With bots it is even easier ...
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-09-04 11:33:32 UTC
Where's your proof that people are using market bots?

I'm not saying that they're not, just that you assumption that "I change order and then someone else changes an order straight away, thus bots" is a little speculative.

What items are you selling?
Do you realise how many people play the market game?
Do you realise how many orders some people have?

The idea that people "hop on and change their orders in 5min twice a day" is comical. I have some accounts, each with some characters all of whom can place some orders.

Does that make me a bot or just someone who spends a lot of time on the market?
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-04 11:44:17 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Where's your proof that people are using market bots?

I'm not saying that they're not, just that you assumption that "I change order and then someone else changes an order straight away, thus bots" is a little speculative.

What items are you selling?
Do you realise how many people play the market game?
Do you realise how many orders some people have?

The idea that people "hop on and change their orders in 5min twice a day" is comical. I have some accounts, each with some characters all of whom can place some orders.

Does that make me a bot or just someone who spends a lot of time on the market?


Logic would tell you that, of course, not everybody is a bot but please do explain what type of human being is able to be online 24/7?

What I'm selling is none of your business. The fact that certain individuals tend to be able to play the market game 24/7 is more than enough evidence to make me concerned.
Dave Stark
#35 - 2013-09-04 11:48:57 UTC
i'll be honest. when i click ok i expect my action to be carried out. not asked to type an illegable collection of letters and numbers in to a box.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-09-04 12:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
Logic would tell you that, of course, not everybody is a bot but please do explain what type of human being is able to be online 24/7?


How you can say they are online 24/7? Or is this "this guy was mining 8 hours ago here and now I log in and he is still here!" case? You can't know they are online 24/7 if you don't do same. So does this tell more about you than "problem" itself?

Quote:
What I'm selling is none of your business. The fact that certain individuals tend to be able to play the market game 24/7 is more than enough evidence to make me concerned.


Problem with your captcha idea is that bots can already read them and they are more effective at it than humans. Of course they can be made even more difficult to read but it only makes it more difficult to normal humans.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-09-04 12:13:07 UTC
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:


This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.


The only way that you can know that he is there 24/7 is if you too are there 24/7. Therefore, if he is a bot, then so are you.
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-09-04 14:54:18 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:


This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.


The only way that you can know that he is there 24/7 is if you too are there 24/7. Therefore, if he is a bot, then so are you.


You fail at logic thinking.

"If a machine is working in a factory 24/7 and you visit that machine 5 times a day that means you're also a machine.".
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#39 - 2013-09-04 15:11:03 UTC
No idea why the obvious solution is not being discussed.

Automate the price dropping feature for EVERYONE.

Allow the player to set a minimum value, below which the system will not operate.
Have a starting value, which the system will automatically climb towards if no competition exists.

Being AFK, it can compete with any other "automated" play very effectively.

Live players can take advantage of the entire system quite easily too, if they are clever.

(Bob wants to sell Item X for XX ISK. He will buy more stock for resale at another location if his competition drops below a certain price, so he wins either way. If he depletes his competitors stock, then he sets the prices here, as well as has inventory for other location)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#40 - 2013-09-04 15:15:04 UTC
Why not just remove the lowest-order-gets-the-sale feature?
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