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Crouching Miner, Hidden Orca

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2013-09-03 15:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
I have been considering what might be interesting in a small portable POS, for solo or small groups.

I am thinking the real solution here is to make the Orca pick up two special abilities.

1 Anchor function.
This would take your existing Orca, with the basic stats as is unchanged, and anchor it to a single spot.
The point of this is to stabilize the ship, and keep it online.
(You can eject from the vessel, bookmark it's location, and use it as a portable base of operations.)

Possible Upgrade: Dev balance as to whether you can activate and leave modules running for boost functions, it might be worth while.

2 Obscurement field
Don't park on grid with anything else, or this becomes worthless.
The Orca has no sensor presence when anchored, and cannot be scanned down at all while anchored. Since the flying pinata has no direct defense, being unable to locate it will probably be the only way it survives long term.

Possible Upgrade: Dev balance as to whether a no scan field extends from the Orca, and how far. Possibly only affects fleet members to the owner and the owner themselves, while in close proximity to the Orca.

Edit: I emphasized the aspects that were possible upgrades to the idea as being separate from the idea itself.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#2 - 2013-09-03 15:48:01 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

The Orca has no sensor presence when anchored, and cannot be scanned down at all while anchored.

Absolutely not.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2013-09-03 15:53:27 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

The Orca has no sensor presence when anchored, and cannot be scanned down at all while anchored.

Absolutely not.

As a vehicle with either trivial or zero combat presence, can you explain why you would say no here?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-09-03 16:01:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

The Orca has no sensor presence when anchored, and cannot be scanned down at all while anchored.

Absolutely not.

As a vehicle with either trivial or zero combat presence, can you explain why you would say no here?



A 100% invulnerable boosting ship, with free reships available, potentially including a safespot to hide an entire fleet in with zero ability to find them?

And you don't think this would be abused?

You really, really need less drugs. Or more medication. However it works with you.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#5 - 2013-09-03 16:06:04 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

The Orca has no sensor presence when anchored, and cannot be scanned down at all while anchored.

Absolutely not.

As a vehicle with either trivial or zero combat presence, can you explain why you would say no here?



A 100% invulnerable boosting ship, with free reships available, potentially including a safespot to hide an entire fleet in with zero ability to find them?

And you don't think this would be abused?

You really, really need less drugs. Or more medication. However it works with you.

I would strongly suggest you read this more carefully.

The two functions you described were strictly dev option as possible upgrades to the idea, not core to the idea itself.

The base idea does not include those.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2013-09-03 16:58:46 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I would strongly suggest you read this more carefully.

The two functions you described were strictly dev option as possible upgrades to the idea, not core to the idea itself.

The base idea does not include those.

I edited the OP to more clearly state the two aspects as possible upgrades, rather than main points.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-09-03 18:08:28 UTC
OP just wants a hidden base to play with in hostile territory, end of story. There is absolutely no other reason whatsoever to anchor a 600m ship in space, instead of a 60m small POS tower that, while paper thin as such things go, has superior defensibility in every way.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2013-09-03 18:14:03 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
OP just wants a hidden base to play with in hostile territory, end of story. There is absolutely no other reason whatsoever to anchor a 600m ship in space, instead of a 60m small POS tower that, while paper thin as such things go, has superior defensibility in every way.

Except that the tower has to be placed at a moon, requires fuel, and is so obvious to locate that any pretense at having a low profile is a joke.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#9 - 2013-09-03 18:23:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
OP just wants a hidden base to play with in hostile territory, end of story. There is absolutely no other reason whatsoever to anchor a 600m ship in space, instead of a 60m small POS tower that, while paper thin as such things go, has superior defensibility in every way.

Except that the tower has to be placed at a moon, requires fuel, and is so obvious to locate that any pretense at having a low profile is a joke.


The joke is that serious hunters will eventually find your Orca and destroy it along with everything inside it, and you will be out 600m just like that.(Protip: CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.) A small POS gives you the opportunity to evac your **** before it goes down, meaning you're out only the tower, a couple hardeners, and the few days of fuel you'd been feeding it.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2013-09-03 18:31:29 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
OP just wants a hidden base to play with in hostile territory, end of story. There is absolutely no other reason whatsoever to anchor a 600m ship in space, instead of a 60m small POS tower that, while paper thin as such things go, has superior defensibility in every way.

Except that the tower has to be placed at a moon, requires fuel, and is so obvious to locate that any pretense at having a low profile is a joke.


The joke is that serious hunters will eventually find your Orca and destroy it along with everything inside it, and you will be out 600m just like that.(Protip: CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.) A small POS gives you the opportunity to evac your **** before it goes down, meaning you're out only the tower, a couple hardeners, and the few days of fuel you'd been feeding it.

That's my risk to take, then.

Also, how exactly are your serious hunters going to find it?
Assuming they can always scan for my location, all I have to do is avoid going anywhere NEAR the hidden orca unless I am confidant I can do so without them finding me at that moment.

Sounds like something both sides should want to happen, not simply a brute force group casually crushing any competition.

Also, towers are generally longer term use than that, this is a short term item at best.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#11 - 2013-09-03 18:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Also, how exactly are your serious hunters going to find it?
Assuming they can always scan for my location, all I have to do is avoid going anywhere NEAR the hidden orca unless I am confidant I can do so without them finding me at that moment.

Quote:

(Protip: CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2013-09-03 19:07:00 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Also, how exactly are your serious hunters going to find it?
Assuming they can always scan for my location, all I have to do is avoid going anywhere NEAR the hidden orca unless I am confidant I can do so without them finding me at that moment.

Quote:

(Protip: CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.)

That's a fail at answering.

Also, the ship is not invisible, simply get on grid with it, and ta-da!
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#13 - 2013-09-03 19:23:32 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Also, how exactly are your serious hunters going to find it?
Assuming they can always scan for my location, all I have to do is avoid going anywhere NEAR the hidden orca unless I am confidant I can do so without them finding me at that moment.

Quote:

(Protip: CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.)

That's a fail at answering.

Also, the ship is not invisible, simply get on grid with it, and ta-da!


If it's invisible, then it's never on grid to anyone.

If it's unscannable, then they'll just D-scan it, and start shotgunning around for it until they find it. This is time consuming but incredibly simple if you have three people and can do some basic math.

Regardless, CCP is not going to give you an invisible base, and someone who wants it will find it eventually.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2013-09-03 19:33:40 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
If it's invisible, then it's never on grid to anyone.

That sounds confused.

It's not invisible, it simply has to be seen directly on the local grid, or not at all.

Domanique Altares wrote:
If it's unscannable, then they'll just D-scan it, and start shotgunning around for it until they find it. This is time consuming but incredibly simple if you have three people and can do some basic math.

D-scan requires an item to be scannable. This isn't.
See above.

Domanique Altares wrote:
Regardless, CCP is not going to give you an invisible base, and someone who wants it will find it eventually.


CCP already gave us cloaking.
I can already cloak an Orca.

Instead of tying up a second account doing tasks that do not contribute to the game, I could have that second account exposed and active, interacting with others.

All the idea does is make the Orca EASIER to find, and frees the second account.
AFK sitting is dull, but it happens. Better gameplay can be had with better planning.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#15 - 2013-09-03 19:40:40 UTC


Quote:
CCP already gave us cloaking.
I can already cloak an Orca.

Instead of tying up a second account doing tasks that do not contribute to the game, I could have that second account exposed and active, interacting with others.

All the idea does is make the Orca EASIER to find, and frees the second account.
AFK sitting is dull, but it happens. Better gameplay can be had with better planning.


Yes. And if you have an active account in the orca and it is cloaked at a SS, it will tie up an account. This is fair given that it is an unscannable mobile base.

What you are asking for is a cloaky POS that can be deployed/undeployed at will.

You yourself admitted that this is never something you would do with your main account. If your main account is already out and interacting with stuff, then I don't see any loss. Furthermore, anything else you're going to use that alt account for isn't going to involve interaction with others.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#16 - 2013-09-03 19:42:51 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

CCP already gave us cloaking.
I can already cloak an Orca.

Instead of tying up a second account doing tasks that do not contribute to the game, I could have that second account exposed and active, interacting with others.

All the idea does is make the Orca EASIER to find, and frees the second account.
AFK sitting is dull, but it happens. Better gameplay can be had with better planning.


Indeed. But you cannot interact with the Orca when it's cloaked.

CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#17 - 2013-09-03 19:51:42 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:


Quote:
CCP already gave us cloaking.
I can already cloak an Orca.

Instead of tying up a second account doing tasks that do not contribute to the game, I could have that second account exposed and active, interacting with others.

All the idea does is make the Orca EASIER to find, and frees the second account.
AFK sitting is dull, but it happens. Better gameplay can be had with better planning.


Yes. And if you have an active account in the orca and it is cloaked at a SS, it will tie up an account. This is fair given that it is an unscannable mobile base.

What you are asking for is a cloaky POS that can be deployed/undeployed at will.

You yourself admitted that this is never something you would do with your main account. If your main account is already out and interacting with stuff, then I don't see any loss. Furthermore, anything else you're going to use that alt account for isn't going to involve interaction with others.

Why would you assume this?

You DO know this ship is primarily intended to work with miners, and that miners interact on a given level, regardless of account descriptions of main or alt.
They mine.

And my main account is actually the one qualified to run the Orca. My alt account supports the main in other circumstances, but here the roles are reversed when not duplicated.

Assumptions are opinions, too often presented like facts.

I respect your opinion, but let's not pretend you speak for anyone but yourself.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2013-09-03 19:54:36 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

CCP already gave us cloaking.
I can already cloak an Orca.

Instead of tying up a second account doing tasks that do not contribute to the game, I could have that second account exposed and active, interacting with others.

All the idea does is make the Orca EASIER to find, and frees the second account.
AFK sitting is dull, but it happens. Better gameplay can be had with better planning.


Indeed. But you cannot interact with the Orca when it's cloaked.

CCP is not going to give you an invisible base.

You must be joking.

Orca is decloaked when fleet member warps to it.
Fleet member dumps can and books ASAP.
While fleet member is aligning out, Orca pilot empties can into appropriate hold.

Considering the 30 second cooldown for many cloaks, this fits nicely in that window.

Orca is far more difficult to catch this way.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#19 - 2013-09-03 19:56:47 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:


Considering the 30 second cooldown for many cloaks, this fits nicely in that window.

Orca is far more difficult to catch this way.


30 seconds out of cloak is all a competent scanner needs to nail your Orca. Especially if people keep warping over to it all the time.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#20 - 2013-09-03 19:56:48 UTC

Quote:
Why would you assume this?

You DO know this ship is primarily intended to work with miners, and that miners interact on a given level, regardless of account descriptions of main or alt.
They mine.

And my main account is actually the one qualified to run the Orca. My alt account supports the main in other circumstances, but here the roles are reversed when not duplicated.

Assumptions are opinions, too often presented like facts.

I respect your opinion, but let's not pretend you speak for anyone but yourself.


If you're going to defend an idea on the basis that it would cause people to do X which has Y benefit, then you need to demonstrate why people would do it. It's not enough to just say that people could theoretically use the newly freed-up alt to do something positive, you need to show that they actually will. You have not done that.

Furthermore, you haven't shown what this does that a small POS doesn't do other than be completely invulnerable (Which is naturally nowhere near balanced)
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