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DCT Dual Character Training Pricing

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-06-14 13:04:12 UTC
Svetlana Tatiana wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Then you should be running a second account.


Svetlana: "I'd like to drive passengers around in my car."

Malcanis: "Buy a bus. It's a better system for that."

Svetlana: "But I already have a car, and I'd like to use my car, and there's no reason I shouldn't be able to."

Malcanis: "Nope. Buy the bus."



No it's more like

Svetlana: "I'd like to hire a car to drive to work every day, but I don't want to pay more than I would on a car loan, and I want to be able to lend it to other people in my family and maybe friends. And I'd like it to belong to me."

Malcanis: "Sounds like you should just buy a car."

Svetlana: "But I want to hire one!"

Malcanis: "No hire company is going to rent to you on those terms, but so what? Everything you say you want you'd get by just buying. Hire cars are for people who just need a car for a specific short term use, and the charges reflect that. And they don't like other people driving them, they only want you behind the wheel. If you're using a car every day, and you want user flexibility you should buy one."

Svetlana: "But I want to hire one. For no reason at all, I refuse to buy one! And I'm going to ignore that I can already get what I want by buying one and demand to be able to hire one even though I have zero leverage in this situation and there's no reason that anyone should change what they're offering."

Malcanis: "Whatever. Hope that works out for you."

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

3056 NONE
Virtus et Honor
#22 - 2013-07-14 03:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: 3056 NONE
Actually i agree with what the persons saying-

I get CCP's point of the dual training but i get this persons point of spending a plex cost of 20 dollars for it. This alt will only be logged in training while there will continue to be only 1 allowable character to be used on the account at any given time. So it boils down to this -

Main Character - Already 14.95 a month
Alt Character - 19.99 a month

Only one character can be used at any given time.

Alt is only logged in to say 10 minutes a day to check skill training and some times NOT logged on for a entire week due to the length of some skills.

So say you have one skill that takes 1 week to train and you need to do 4 of them. For 4 log ins for a total of a months time it cost you $20 + 14.95 for your main equaling 34.95 just for your character.

This is no way a viable option and no offense but really screams greed lol. I love Eve and the idea of Eve but that upsets me personally to see them do that to the player base.

But then again i guess its like you said, if you buy it with out wieghing the options i guess its the same as giving away 500mil isk for a cargo expander. Just a little crazy the scaming cause people don't do the math has gone beyond the game.

WHICH is funny because if one of the players takes advantage of the game this way it breaks the rules lol.

I think eve is going to see most of the users for this like me will use in game plex bought from the market with ISK i've earned and eventually lead this to crashing the plex system.

Another example of this which proves the point. I just created a alt (mind you using a plex i bought with ISK which makes eve 0 extra dollars) and my first thing i want to train is Spaceship command to level 5. Why well simple, this is one of the most important skills in flying anything...Total training time coming out gate is 5 days and 17 hours.

Now lets say i want to do this to another skill like say Cybernetics so i can install implants and boost my training time...Well there went 15 days for JUST level 5, then lets talk about the 5 other days it takes to get to lvl 5.

Then there is Caldari Frigate, for sure gonna want that up to atleast lvl 3. Well there go's 7 hours the first lvl, 1 day and 17 hrs the second lvl and THEN 9 days and 18 hours the 3rd. So say i paid cash for the plex...i spent 20 dollars for what?

Here better yet let me tell you what i just paid for if i did pay cash -

I paid for a tune who can't fly with my other toon, Who is gonna take FOREVER to be able to use...so basically i paid for something to set and not be used for a couple months...YAY ME!

Who knows maybe this is a good way for anyone to farm characters.

Not a know it all but how i see it personally.

Just my 2 cents :D

/me slowly walks away....
Mag's
Azn Empire
#23 - 2013-07-14 11:11:49 UTC
3056 NONE wrote:
I didn't read the thread, which explains why this isn't a replacement for second accounts and is a niche product not meant for long term alt training.

/me slowly walks away....

OK.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

3056 NONE
Virtus et Honor
#24 - 2013-07-14 18:53:03 UTC
Mag's wrote:
3056 NONE wrote:
I didn't read the thread, which explains why this isn't a replacement for second accounts and is a niche product not meant for long term alt training.

/me slowly walks away....

OK.



Wow its hard to believe that a company who owns EVE and makes hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions a year can be so stupid enough to not listen to their own forums when some one says HEY, this is going to cost you out the ass. So question is who pushed this idea, the dev's? what they need a new feature?? cause i know the user base wouldn't of thought about this on a level where they pay 34.95 a month for 2 accounts mind you and can only use one.

Who in their right mind is that stupid....For 2 accounts MONTHLY your only talking 14.95 each, HELLO MATH ALERT thats 30 dollars OR 29.9 a month..lol

YOUR paying 34.95 for 2 accounts one you can't access.

Here let me break it down easier since obviously you have a problem.

You have 2 home phones. One you use 2 times a month and pay 40 dollars for. The second phone you use about 50 to 60 times a month, you spend 35 for the second phone. You just wasted 40 dollars...i mean I'm worried about how many of you live in a shack piggy backed off someones network lol since you can't do normal math on investing your money.

Ok im done this is #%!ing hiliarious lol....
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2013-07-15 17:12:38 UTC
3056 NONE wrote:
Mag's wrote:
3056 NONE wrote:
I didn't read the thread, which explains why this isn't a replacement for second accounts and is a niche product not meant for long term alt training.

/me slowly walks away....

OK.



Wow its hard to believe that a company who owns EVE and makes hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions a year can be so stupid enough to not listen to their own forums when some one says HEY, this is going to cost you out the ass. So question is who pushed this idea, the dev's? what they need a new feature?? cause i know the user base wouldn't of thought about this on a level where they pay 34.95 a month for 2 accounts mind you and can only use one.

Who in their right mind is that stupid....For 2 accounts MONTHLY your only talking 14.95 each, HELLO MATH ALERT thats 30 dollars OR 29.9 a month..lol

YOUR paying 34.95 for 2 accounts one you can't access.

Here let me break it down easier since obviously you have a problem.

You have 2 home phones. One you use 2 times a month and pay 40 dollars for. The second phone you use about 50 to 60 times a month, you spend 35 for the second phone. You just wasted 40 dollars...i mean I'm worried about how many of you live in a shack piggy backed off someones network lol since you can't do normal math on investing your money.

Ok im done this is #%!ing hiliarious lol....
Here, let me break it down for you.


  • Does it have a limited and niche appeal? Yes.
  • Are you forced to use it? No.
  • Is this a replacement for a second account? No.
  • Could it be cheaper to get a second account? Yes, at around 3 months per char.
  • Should it be cheaper than standard pricing to use? Hell no.



This niche system works out cheaper for short term training of alts, than getting a second account. I could see the argument regarding cost, if CCP had removed all other options, they haven't.
But hey, rant on some more why CCP shouldn't offer this flexibility and why they shouldn't make money in the business they are in. Hilarious indeed.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-07-15 17:57:27 UTC
This is one of those threads that just makes me shake my head.

DCT is not intended to be used forever. If you need to train a character long term, chances are you want it to be logged in along with your main at some point. So get a second account.

Her's a perfect example of what DCT was meant for:

I want an alt that can do exploration so I too can bask in the glory of finding faction POS bpcs. Turns out I have an alt, that for 30 days of training, can have those skills maxed out. I'm really not going to use the character a lot, mostly when I'm either bored or broke. This sounds like a job for:

A) Staring a second account (or sixth in my case).
B) Dual character training.

Since I only plan on logging the character on occasionally, starting another account seems like a real waste of time before we even look at the plex costs. And since I can max the skills I need in under 30 days (27 to be precise), this is exactly the kind of scenario that DCT was meant to solve. I can spend on plex and get a character I need, as opposed to 4 (or whatever it costs to start a new account and train for 30 days), saving me money in the long run (since I don't have to continuously plex that account to keep the one toon active), and the hassle of managing another account. As it's also one of my cyno alts, the character now has dual purposes, AND I don't have to interrupt training my Moros pilot for 30 days.

DCT for the win, in this case. Cheaper, better, less :effort:.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Azeroth Undershaft
Silent Knight Industries - Virtual Tech
#27 - 2013-07-30 15:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Azeroth Undershaft
De'Veldrin wrote:

DCT for the win, in this case. Cheaper, better, less :effort:.


Exactly my view that people seem to miss, it's a character you don't need to pay for while you're not using.
I have a hauler/Freighter second char, I don't move things that often (once a month/couple of months) so it just sits there, and when I need a ton of stuff moved it's there.

This would be unwise and impractical to have a second account for, what you are paying the extra for is training an account that NEVER GOES AWAY or becomes inactive.
brinelan
#28 - 2013-07-31 11:57:53 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
This is one of those threads that just makes me shake my head.

DCT is not intended to be used forever. If you need to train a character long term, chances are you want it to be logged in along with your main at some point. So get a second account.

Her's a perfect example of what DCT was meant for:

I want an alt that can do exploration so I too can bask in the glory of finding faction POS bpcs. Turns out I have an alt, that for 30 days of training, can have those skills maxed out. I'm really not going to use the character a lot, mostly when I'm either bored or broke. This sounds like a job for:

A) Staring a second account (or sixth in my case).
B) Dual character training.

Since I only plan on logging the character on occasionally, starting another account seems like a real waste of time before we even look at the plex costs. And since I can max the skills I need in under 30 days (27 to be precise), this is exactly the kind of scenario that DCT was meant to solve. I can spend on plex and get a character I need, as opposed to 4 (or whatever it costs to start a new account and train for 30 days), saving me money in the long run (since I don't have to continuously plex that account to keep the one toon active), and the hassle of managing another account. As it's also one of my cyno alts, the character now has dual purposes, AND I don't have to interrupt training my Moros pilot for 30 days.

DCT for the win, in this case. Cheaper, better, less :effort:.


Someone gets it... I do the same with some industrial alts that I need but haven't been able to train up without stopping training on my combat characters.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-08-03 04:40:50 UTC
3056 NONE wrote:
Wow its hard to believe that a company who owns EVE and makes hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions a year can be so stupid enough to not listen to their own forums when some one says HEY, this is going to cost you out the ass. So question is who pushed this idea, the dev's? what they need a new feature?? cause i know the user base wouldn't of thought about this on a level where they pay 34.95 a month for 2 accounts mind you and can only use one.

Who in their right mind is that stupid....For 2 accounts MONTHLY your only talking 14.95 each, HELLO MATH ALERT thats 30 dollars OR 29.9 a month..lol


People have been asking for multiple character training on account for a long time now, so this feature was brought in. It's not intended to be a longterm thing, it's more for the people that want to train a bunch of cyno alts or something similar (trade alt anyone?). I particularly like the part where you call out a math alaert after having said CCP makes hundreds of thousands, if not millions per year. A little math would give you a rough estimate of their base income from EVE subscriptions so you wouldn't have to make such a silly statement.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Novedem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-08-05 07:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Novedem
-- Post deleted for inadequately thought out opinion --
Ryan Easte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-08-30 12:38:51 UTC
My head hurts.Its convenient. you pay for convenience.

to me it is intended for those, "oh **** i could use a couple more sp on that cyno alt for something else i want to do with it scenarios but i really need to stay on track with my main " I guess 20 bucks wont hurt for a month or 2! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY CCP


/thread closed
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-08-30 14:15:31 UTC
Svetlana Tatiana wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
DCT isn't intended for people to train their character for a year. If you want to do that, you're far better off doing it on a seperate account for a variety of reasons in addition to cost.

It's literally meant as a minor flexibility option for people who want a limited alt with a couple of million SP. I know that you're desperately trying to avoid understanding this because you want 1 account to offer the same utility we get from 3 accounts now, but that's the truth of it.

Stop thinking of DCT as in any way competing with alt accounts. It doesn't. It's intended for use profiles that aren't suited at all to multiple accounts. If you want an alt and you're thinking "man, just having a second account would be way better for what I want this alt for" then DCT isn't intended for that kind of alt, because there's already an option that does what you want.

The rest of your argument boils down to "I want CCP to give me more for less".

DCT is as it is, deal with it.



I do not at all want to be given more for less. What I am, is unsure as to why CCP expects me to be happy giving more to receive less.

My question is why? There is no reason DCT can't be everything multiple accounts is, minus the ability to actually fly both characters at once.

And "deal with it" isn't an appropriate response to anything. Should people have "dealt with it" rather than turn CCP around with the Jita Riots and the mass exodus of subscribers? EVE is decidedly better for that, for people wanting the situation to improve. DCT can be more than it is, and there doesn't seem to be a good reason why it isn't already.

If I'm mistaken, I apologize, but your position seems to be: this is the current state, and any change is bad, no matter what the quality of the current state is, or what the change would be toward.

You say DCT isn't meant to be the equal of multiple accounts, but why? What, at all, would it take away from if they were more equal?


It is a quick way to make cyno / PI / trading /hauling /whatever alts. I started using this feature as soon as it came in and will shortly stop using it as my goals for it will be furfilled. At the end of this process i will have a bunch of useful alts that can sell stuff, do PI, light cynos all with multiple jump clones. I could have done this before but i would have had to either stop training on my main for a while or open yet another account, train for a bit and then use plex to transfer the char across to my main account.
It is easy + convienient and once done i will retain access to these chars for as long as i play without increasing my long term playing costs. The old system is still available if you prefer that one.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2013-09-03 17:37:21 UTC
Svetlana Tatiana wrote:
So...let me get this straight:

Not only do we have to go to the hassle of setting up dual character training one month at a time, but it costs MORE to train an alt than it does a main?

On a month-by-month basis, it's the same price, granted. But normally you can buy chunks of time in advance which greatly reduces the cost. But with DCT, you have to pay $20/month.

Why is running an alt -- a secondary character, someone I'll spend less time playing -- more expensive than running a primary?



I knew it, as soon as CCP put this in place to satisfy the whiny bitches, they came back and complained that it is not enough.
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