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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

First post First post
Author
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2013-09-03 14:30:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


The proper fix is injecting more risk in to level 4 missions. The NPC AI change was a good start and is healthy for the EVE economy in that it actually spurred more drone consumption and production. Prior to the npc AI change, the only time dropnes were lost were in pvp or if a mission runner warped off and forgot them.



Like I said, toss them all out into low sec.


I disagree with that, if for no other reason is it fuels that irrational "high sec persecution complex" where they allow themeslve to think that the ONLY motivation I and those like me have is that "you don't like my playstyle" lol. But also because it doesn't work.

Put lvl 4s in low sec and watch the brand spanking new LEVEL 3 community burst into existence like the Big Bang. Lvl 5s and incursions and all the rewards outside of high sec prove that no level of reward justifies any level of risk for a great many PVE players. Lvl 4s in low sec just means waste content.




Someone will run them. Don't want to risk it, have fun spending 4 days to buy a battlecruiser. It would likely bring prices down on exotic stuff, because there would be a LOT less isk in the system.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#422 - 2013-09-03 14:38:19 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide,

You're saying that there's "a problem because of 150,000 people injecting isk into a game's economy while suffering very VERY few loses to compensate". I am trying to see where the problem is. Do you have data to back this up?

If this is a problem that you personally have, well then, I can very much respect that. But please understand that that is what it is, a personal problem with mission running, and not a problem with the game's economy.




EVE's virtual economy thrives on consumption (ships exploding is the biggest part of that), mission runners contribute very little to this as the content they enjoy rarely kills anything bigger than a Condor

No one claims EVE's economy is about to crash. That doesn't mean there aren't fixable imbalances though.



MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#423 - 2013-09-03 14:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE's virtual economy thrives on consumption (ships exploding is the biggest part of that), mission runners contribute very little to this as the content they enjoy rarely kills anything bigger than a Condor

No one claims EVE's economy is about to crash. That doesn't mean there aren't fixable imbalances though.

Eve's virtual economy does indeed thrive on consumption. And it thrives just as much on production. Simply because mission running is not on the side of "consumption" doesn't mean they are not contributing. Not everything must involve a kill to add content. That's part of it or a way, but not the whole equation.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#424 - 2013-09-03 14:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Onictus wrote:
Someone will run them. Don't want to risk it, have fun spending 4 days to buy a battlecruiser. It would likely bring prices down on exotic stuff, because there would be a LOT less isk in the system.



And this would be why you aren't the CEO of a company. Do you believe, as an example myself, with 63? of 65?million combat oriented skill points am going to keep my sub active with a general activity of level 3 missions to do? You think what? I'm going to suddenly decide to go live in your alliance controlled space? You are a simp. I think you overvalue how valuable EVE is. This game is not irreplaceable in that sense.

I say that in the what if your pipe dream came true sense. I sit comfortably knowing my dollar buys more than your personal favor.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#425 - 2013-09-03 15:02:24 UTC
Isn't test already there

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2013-09-03 15:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Someone will run them. Don't want to risk it, have fun spending 4 days to buy a battlecruiser. It would likely bring prices down on exotic stuff, because there would be a LOT less isk in the system.



And this would be why you aren't the CEO of a company. Do you believe, as an example myself, with 63? of 65?million combat oriented skill points am going to keep my sub active with a general activity of level 3 missions to do? You think what? I'm going to suddenly decide to go live in your alliance controlled space? You are a simp. I think you overvalue how valuable EVE is. This game is not irreplaceable in that sense.

I say that in the what if your pipe dream came true sense. I sit comfortably knowing my dollar buys more than your personal favor.



Yeah that is the point. Bitches like you are part of the problem.

Nut up, I lived in low for about a year exploiting level4s in low sec because they were were the lv 20 agents were. Harden up.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#427 - 2013-09-03 15:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Man listen, instead of trying to convince me of how scared i'm supposed to be of you, make me scared.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2013-09-03 15:31:26 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Man listen, instead of convincing me how scared i'm supposed to be of you, make me scared.


lol

You actually think you are worth that much energy?

You aren't worth the tornados to blap you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#429 - 2013-09-03 15:31:31 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE's virtual economy thrives on consumption (ships exploding is the biggest part of that), mission runners contribute very little to this as the content they enjoy rarely kills anything bigger than a Condor

No one claims EVE's economy is about to crash. That doesn't mean there aren't fixable imbalances though.

Eve's virtual economy does indeed thrive on consumption. And it thrives just as much on production. Simply because mission running is not on the side of "consumption" doesn't mean they are not contributing. Not everything must involve a kill to add content. That's part of it or a way, but not the whole equation.


And your post is A way to miss the point. Who said anything about killing?

I'm talking about balance. In other pve areas (incursions, null sec anomalies and FW though it wasn't an isk faucet per se etc) there have been balance measures taken because too much isk was being injected into the economy. This dispite the fact that ships do frequently die while players are engaging that content.

Yet Missions are allowed to continue to collectively spew isk into the system with no counterbalancing consumption save ammo (and not even mocu of that if the mission runner runs missions in amarr space and uses laser boats)and the the early cost to noob mission runners of replacing condors and rifters (lol).

That's an imbalance (as seen here) and while some growth is good, a extra Trillion a day because EVE doesn't have enough isk sinks isn't all that great in the long run. Missions are a part of this imbalance.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#430 - 2013-09-03 15:34:28 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Man listen, instead of convincing me how scared i'm supposed to be of you, make me scared.


lol

You actually think you are worth that much energy?

You aren't worth the tornados to blap you.


Yeah, that's what I thought.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#431 - 2013-09-03 15:38:31 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE's virtual economy thrives on consumption (ships exploding is the biggest part of that), mission runners contribute very little to this as the content they enjoy rarely kills anything bigger than a Condor

No one claims EVE's economy is about to crash. That doesn't mean there aren't fixable imbalances though.

Eve's virtual economy does indeed thrive on consumption. And it thrives just as much on production. Simply because mission running is not on the side of "consumption" doesn't mean they are not contributing. Not everything must involve a kill to add content. That's part of it or a way, but not the whole equation.

Are you simple?
Missions aren't construction, they are an isk faucet. They work as long as people are losing ships in them, as the faucet provides a reason for player to mine materials, produce ships then sell them to transfer your isk to the rest of the player base.

What happens when a faucet runs while no loss is occurring is a buildup of isk, and an inevitable devaluation of isk. While there's not much risk of this at the moment, it's something that could happen before long down the line. Eventually so much isk is in the system, that people pay higher and higher prices as they compete with equally wealthy people. What you end up with is a system where the isk:item ratio is all askew. That's when a market crash would occur.

Isk sinks (losing ships for example) balance out isk faucets. and promote a healthy circulation of currency, keeping the universe in balance. Levels 4's are pretty easy to grind at nearly 0 risk making them a dangerous faucet to leave as is.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2013-09-03 15:40:40 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Man listen, instead of convincing me how scared i'm supposed to be of you, make me scared.


lol

You actually think you are worth that much energy?

You aren't worth the tornados to blap you.


Yeah, that's what I thought.


56 kills I'm not camping you for a month waiting for you to come out from under concord, you can shoot me anytime. I have 6 seconds.

pansy.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#433 - 2013-09-03 15:42:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE's virtual economy thrives on consumption (ships exploding is the biggest part of that), mission runners contribute very little to this as the content they enjoy rarely kills anything bigger than a Condor

No one claims EVE's economy is about to crash. That doesn't mean there aren't fixable imbalances though.

Eve's virtual economy does indeed thrive on consumption. And it thrives just as much on production. Simply because mission running is not on the side of "consumption" doesn't mean they are not contributing. Not everything must involve a kill to add content. That's part of it or a way, but not the whole equation.


And your post is A way to miss the point. Who said anything about killing?

I'm talking about balance. In other pve areas (incursions, null sec anomalies and FW though it wasn't an isk faucet per se etc) there have been balance measures taken because too much isk was being injected into the economy. This dispite the fact that ships do frequently die while players are engaging that content.

Yet Missions are allowed to continue to collectively spew isk into the system with no counterbalancing consumption save ammo (and not even mocu of that if the mission runner runs missions in amarr space and uses laser boats)and the the early cost to noob mission runners of replacing condors and rifters (lol).

That's an imbalance (as seen here) and while some growth is good, a extra Trillion a day because EVE doesn't have enough isk sinks isn't all that great in the long run. Missions are a part of this imbalance.


What if we made the LP store cost much more ISK to buy items? It would effectively slow the injection of ISK in the game by deleting more of the bounty/reward from the mission. Could it possibly be enough to reduce the injection of ISK enough?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2013-09-03 15:45:08 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[
What if we made the LP store cost much more ISK to buy items? It would effectively slow the injection of ISK in the game by deleting more of the bounty/reward from the mission. Could it possibly be enough to reduce the injection of ISK enough?



I can pull 60m/hr on bounties with a good mission spread.

That is an outlier though.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#435 - 2013-09-03 15:46:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:


Isk sinks (losing ships for example) balance out isk faucets. and promote a healthy circulation of currency, keeping the universe in balance. Levels 4's are pretty easy to grind at nearly 0 risk making them a dangerous faucet to leave as is.


Ship loss beside supercap are an isk faucet not sink. It's a cost to the guy who lost the ship but it inject ISK in the economy in the form of insurance payout. The only way it would be a faucet is if the transaction tax to buy the ship + isk cost for the production line removed more ISK than the insurance payout inject.

You can't solve the increased amount of ISK in the economy in the game by blapping ships. You will never succede.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#436 - 2013-09-03 15:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Onictus wrote:

56 kills I'm not camping you for a month waiting for you to come out from under concord, you can shoot me anytime. I have 6 seconds.

pansy.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Its more that like your killboard suggests you only get kills involved in massive groups of which you're a peon and the thought of getting owned after smackin solo is too much to bear. Because we both know you aren't that hardcore. What you are is like many of the peon pissants on this forum ballsy when you sit comfortably behind a large army. But me, IDC. Idc about you, your corporation or your alliance. I meant what I said explicitly about your mom and if you don't come kill me youre a ho'.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#437 - 2013-09-03 15:48:27 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[
What if we made the LP store cost much more ISK to buy items? It would effectively slow the injection of ISK in the game by deleting more of the bounty/reward from the mission. Could it possibly be enough to reduce the injection of ISK enough?



I can pull 60m/hr on bounties with a good mission spread.

That is an outlier though.


What if we add a 0 to the ISK cost of every LP items? Can it cover enough to burn ISK instead of injecting?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#438 - 2013-09-03 15:49:01 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
[
Yeah yeah yeah. It more that like your killboard suggests you only get kills involved in massive groups of which you're a peon and the thought of getting owned after smackin solo is too much to bear. Because we both know you aren't that hardcore. What you are is like many of the peon pissants on this forum ballsy when you sit comfortably behind a large army. But me, IDC. Idc about you, your corporation or your alliance. I meant what I said explicitly about your moms and if you don't come kill me youre a *****.



Says the NPC corp guy.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#439 - 2013-09-03 15:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I'm done arguing. Sucker. I was in the NPC corp before you called me a a "B'. Excuses.

Youre just a candyass nullho pretending he's badass gate camping all day.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2013-09-03 15:52:20 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Onictus wrote:

56 kills I'm not camping you for a month waiting for you to come out from under concord, you can shoot me anytime. I have 6 seconds.

pansy.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. It more that like your killboard suggests you only get kills involved in massive groups of which you're a peon and the thought of getting owned after smackin solo is too much to bear. Because we both know you aren't that hardcore. What you are is like many of the peon pissants on this forum ballsy when you sit comfortably behind a large army. But me, IDC. Idc about you, your corporation or your alliance. I meant what I said explicitly about your mom and if you don't come kill me youre a ho'.



...and yet I have 8 times more kills than you have ever.

Last month.