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Eve = Sociopath's Playground

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Author
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#221 - 2013-09-03 10:23:13 UTC
embrel wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
(5) using his name, image, likeness or voice for a purpose other than the legitimate information of the public;

It's legitimate information of the public.



I will claim the same as soon I get my hands on your naked selfies:)

EDIT: I didn't listen in. He really accepted it to be recorded? What an idiot. In these cases I tend to question whether those people are actually legally "capable of acting". Guess his wife should take over.

Depends how you acquire them and Erotica always makes sure the client knows they are being recorded.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#222 - 2013-09-03 10:23:14 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
If by society you mean America, you could be right .. over here where I live, you'd have to stretch the imagination a lot to call this bullying. It's not that much fun for the victim, granted, but it's a lot of fun for 'them' and most of 'us'.

They added the very important fact that in EVE noone can be trusted to this gentlemans awareness, if nothing else. He is not identified .. except by EVE name .. which is anonymous. That makes it impossible to take legal action as who is being slandered here ? The EVE toon that is not his property but CCP's you say ? Interesting ...

In PVP ... don't we all abuse the other persons weakness to the maximum of our abilities ? Is that not the concept of PVP ?

Also .. you try to ban lotteries the same way ? Gullible idiots fork over money in hopes of winning with odds that are crushing ... this is also abusing easy targets for, even worse, hard cash.

Seriously .. what is the TRUE issue here ?

The issue here is that this abuse when beyond attacking his EVE character and became about humiliating him personally as much as they could. It's morally wrong, socially unacceptable, and increasingly becoming legally unacceptable. In short it went too far. If this is the type of behavior CCP condones, then I can't support them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-09-03 10:24:15 UTC
Louise Beethoven wrote:

Just because someone stole your chocolate milk doesn't make you some kind of Bully Master Expert™



No one stole my chocolate milk. Please quote the part where I said that someone stole my chocolate milk, and then link it. Perhaps, learn to read first and how not to put words in other people's mouths, then come back and try to demonstrate you are capable of discussion points that can be taken seriously.

For the record, no one here is a Bully Master Expert™ until I've seen some legal qualifications, so nobody's accusation of bullying holds any weight whatsoever. By that standard, if you're looking for a Bully Master Expert™ to make said determination, then there is no need for me to point out that no bullying has taken place because no one here is qualified to demonstrate that it has.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

William Walker
Crescent Eclipse
#224 - 2013-09-03 10:26:01 UTC
He had the choice to turn the game off or leave at ANY TIME! NO ONE FORCED HIM TO DO ANYTHING! Bullying on the internet? JUST TURN THE COMPUTER OFF! HOLY BANANAS

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ノ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#225 - 2013-09-03 10:26:27 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
(5) using his name, image, likeness or voice for a purpose other than the legitimate information of the public;

It's legitimate information of the public.



I will claim the same as soon I get my hands on your naked selfies:)

EDIT: I didn't listen in. He really accepted it to be recorded? What an idiot. In these cases I tend to question whether those people are actually legally "capable of acting". Guess his wife should take over.

Depends how you acquire them and Erotica always makes sure the client knows they are being recorded.

How come at the end of the recording then, they say "by the way we've been recording this. Do we have your permission to publish it" he then clearly say no, they then say "so we have your permission" which again he says no, now it's published.

To me that seems like:
1. He didn't know it was being recorded, otherwise he wouldn't have needed to be told at this point.
2. He clearly stated his refusal to allow the publishing of the recording.

At least over here, you'd be in serious hot water for publishing voice recordings that you were explicitly told was not authorised.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-09-03 10:26:30 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You are one of the many people who assume that it's not bullying if it's not done physically. Not the case. People get bullied on the internet all the time, and it doesn't have to involve death threats or threats of violence. The legality of bullying online is becoming more and more strict, in line with in person.
If you think of it this way, I can't go into a public place and shout abuse at you, there are several laws that make that illegal for me to do, regardless of your ability to leave the area. In the same way, online interaction is just a different method of communication. Hurling abuse at someone is exactly the same.

They did not hurl abuse at him, now did they ? Admittedly I skipped some parts, but I just heard them make demands that would make me laugh at them and cut my losses then and there .. and made him act like the idiot he is. If I go to a streetcorner and then advertise I will double your money, if you act like a ******* idiot, dont sign a legal paper stating it and then dont pay you and laugh at you .. would that be bullyin ? Or just you being a ****** ?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Laws are increasingly falling in line to protect vulnerable people from bullies exactly like Erotica1 and co.
I find it hard to believe that so many people really believe that treating someone this way under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is OK.

[citation needed]
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#227 - 2013-09-03 10:27:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
If this is the type of behavior CCP condones, then I can't support them.

Contract your stuff to Riot Girl on your way out.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#228 - 2013-09-03 10:28:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
(3) appropriating or using his image or voice while he is in private premises;

Yeah, he agreed to have his voice recorded and I think this is more to do with covert recording like phone hacking.

Quote:
(5) using his name, image, likeness or voice for a purpose other than the legitimate information of the public;

It's legitimate information of the public.



I just took a look at the act in context. It only matters in light of personal identity and reputation. Without knowing the identity of who the voice belongs to, there has been no breach of the act. Australia is looking at similar legislation.


As I said, I'm not a lawyer. I personally would just take care with publishing these things. Also, I guess his humiliation was big enough without it being conserved to eternity on the web.

And - how long till an anonymous voice record can be linked to a person by whatever tool?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#229 - 2013-09-03 10:29:10 UTC
William Walker wrote:
He had the choice to turn the game off or leave at ANY TIME! NO ONE FORCED HIM TO DO ANYTHING! Bullying on the internet? JUST TURN THE COMPUTER OFF! HOLY BANANAS

Yes, and this is said all the time, and still doesn't change a thing. Why should the victim have to walk away when the bully is doing something they shouldn't be doing?

If I start insulting you in the street, should you have to leave? You can leave, it's your choice, but should you have to? Or should I have a little social responsibility?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

embrel
BamBam Inc.
#230 - 2013-09-03 10:29:49 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
(5) using his name, image, likeness or voice for a purpose other than the legitimate information of the public;

It's legitimate information of the public.



I will claim the same as soon I get my hands on your naked selfies:)

EDIT: I didn't listen in. He really accepted it to be recorded? What an idiot. In these cases I tend to question whether those people are actually legally "capable of acting". Guess his wife should take over.

Depends how you acquire them and Erotica always makes sure the client knows they are being recorded.


could you be interested in a loan? with just a small collateral?
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
#231 - 2013-09-03 10:29:51 UTC
embrel wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
embrel wrote:
(3) appropriating or using his image or voice while he is in private premises;

Yeah, he agreed to have his voice recorded and I think this is more to do with covert recording like phone hacking.

Quote:
(5) using his name, image, likeness or voice for a purpose other than the legitimate information of the public;

It's legitimate information of the public.



I just took a look at the act in context. It only matters in light of personal identity and reputation. Without knowing the identity of who the voice belongs to, there has been no breach of the act. Australia is looking at similar legislation.


As I said, I'm not a lawyer. I personally would just take care with publishing these things. Also, I guess his humiliation was big enough without it being conserved to eternity on the web.

And - how long till an anonymous voice record can be linked to a person by whatever tool?

Will willingly link the character's name for the measly sum of 7 billion isk.

 ♥ 

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#232 - 2013-09-03 10:30:18 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
If this is the type of behavior CCP condones, then I can't support them.

Contract your stuff to Riot Girl on your way out.

You can go **** yourself. People like you are the sludge of the community.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2013-09-03 10:30:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Which part? The part where none of his consent was made under duress and he actively and successfully resisted a number of their requests, or the part where they beat him up after school, dismantled his bike, emptied a small carton of chocolate milk inside his lunchbox and questioned his sexuality..... oh, wait, that second part didn't happen.

Never mind then, cuz it wasn't bullying.

You are one of the many people who assume that it's not bullying if it's not done physically. Not the case. People get bullied on the internet all the time, and it doesn't have to involve death threats or threats of violence. The legality of bullying online is becoming more and more strict, in line with in person.
If you think of it this way, I can't go into a public place and shout abuse at you, there are several laws that make that illegal for me to do, regardless of your ability to leave the area. In the same way, online interaction is just a different method of communication. Hurling abuse at someone is exactly the same. Laws are increasingly falling in line to protect vulnerable people from bullies exactly like Erotica1 and co.
I find it hard to believe that so many people really believe that treating someone this way under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is OK.


No, I'm not one of those people at all. The internet wasn't around when I was being bullied.

You're right, the law is becoming more strict, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, the PC crowd are taking "more strict" definitions to mean that anything that hurts their feelings or offends them can be categorised as bullying. Not so. Bullying is non-consensual. As I've already pointed out, nothing happened to this guy that he didn't consent to. This guy wasn't forced to do anything he did in that recording, nor was he tormented, nor was he abused.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
#234 - 2013-09-03 10:30:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
William Walker wrote:
He had the choice to turn the game off or leave at ANY TIME! NO ONE FORCED HIM TO DO ANYTHING! Bullying on the internet? JUST TURN THE COMPUTER OFF! HOLY BANANAS

Yes, and this is said all the time, and still doesn't change a thing. Why should the victim have to walk away when the bully is doing something they shouldn't be doing?

If I start insulting you in the street, should you have to leave? You can leave, it's your choice, but should you have to? Or should I have a little social responsibility?

Responsibility is different from legal obligation.

 ♥ 

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#235 - 2013-09-03 10:33:17 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You are one of the many people who assume that it's not bullying if it's not done physically. Not the case. People get bullied on the internet all the time, and it doesn't have to involve death threats or threats of violence. The legality of bullying online is becoming more and more strict, in line with in person.
If you think of it this way, I can't go into a public place and shout abuse at you, there are several laws that make that illegal for me to do, regardless of your ability to leave the area. In the same way, online interaction is just a different method of communication. Hurling abuse at someone is exactly the same.

They did not hurl abuse at him, now did they ? Admittedly I skipped some parts, but I just heard them make demands that would make me laugh at them and cut my losses then and there .. and made him act like the idiot he is. If I go to a streetcorner and then advertise I will double your money, if you act like a ******* idiot, dont sign a legal paper stating it and then dont pay you and laugh at you .. would that be bullyin ? Or just you being a ****** ?
They purposely recorded him and convinced him to do humiliating things to publicly display his humiliation.

Ressiv wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Laws are increasingly falling in line to protect vulnerable people from bullies exactly like Erotica1 and co.
I find it hard to believe that so many people really believe that treating someone this way under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is OK.

[citation needed]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/08/07/ns-cyberbullying-law-rehtaeh.html
2nd link on google, but there's plenty of them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-09-03 10:34:02 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Ressiv wrote:


You are aware that bullying is a social mechanism to enforce learning how to behave in that group ?


You are aware that you are completely ******** ?



It's because of pubbies like those and other scum alike internet gets more and more controlled, countries set more and more laws about and at some point some have the balls to make things happen.
This reminds me that kid in jail not a long time ago for bullying another kid and his stupid nerd friend making youtube idiot speeches about freedom and respect when he had no idea what he was talking about and specially about those two words.

What this kind or thread reminds me is that Internet is not controlled enough with RL consequences, but we'll get there at some point and sooner the better, on top this will generate business/money thus a must do asap.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#237 - 2013-09-03 10:34:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You can go **** yourself. People like you are the sludge of the community.

Wow, that kind of hostility is uncalled for in this civil environment.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2013-09-03 10:34:49 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

How come at the end of the recording then, they say "by the way we've been recording this. Do we have your permission to publish it" he then clearly say no, they then say "so we have your permission" which again he says no, now it's published.


To me that seems like you need to listen closer .. he first said yeah or something to that effect, then came back on that.

Quote:

At least over here, you'd be in serious hot water for publishing voice recordings that you were explicitly told was not authorised.

With cases getting dropped even when it's recording of police officers on duty, and the issue of recording a soccer game and publishing it, makes this statement to require a very solid case and argument to be accepted.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#239 - 2013-09-03 10:36:35 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You can go **** yourself. People like you are the sludge of the community.

Wow, that kind of hostility is uncalled for in this civil environment.

Every post you make disgusts me, and I have no time for people like you, so don't expect much civility.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Nick Kumamoto
Doomheim
#240 - 2013-09-03 10:36:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Kumamoto
To the OP.

If you deny them this kind of publicity then eventually they will tire of their little game and go do other things.

If you continue to give them this kind of publicity they will thirst for more since it feeds their ego and sort of justifies their actions.

If you intend to continue giving them publicity then do it in a manner that is not deemed to be a whine-fest. I'd rather suggest you HTFU and look at it from the perspective of being a smarter player not falling for the bullcrap that they force unto others (or the POV that they are killing off the competition)

I get the finer point though - if a player acts in a certain way in a game what is to stop them from acting like that IRL. But then again this is just a game, spaceship pixels and all that. And I suppose like with many other things people become emotionally attached when they make an investment in time and effort to build something from the ground up and then watch some goofs/goons ruin it in a matter of hours, minutes or seconds. But hey that's life, right?

Most of what I write in terms of posts and/or comments is meant as "tongue-in-cheek", i.e. part irony, part sarcasm but meant in good fun.

On a more serious note. I want to marry CCP karkur. Is there a EVE dating service I can call?