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Desperately needed torpedo rebalance
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Frederick Rommel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-03 04:09:24 UTC
Javelin torpedoes I feel are completely useless right now. Cruise missiles are better in every way possible to them.

Fury cruise missiles have higher dps, fury cruise missiles have nearly double the range of javelin torpedoes, cruise missile launchers require 325 less power grid and 24.2 less cpu.

It seems that cruise missiles are better in every aspect to that of javelin cruise missiles. There should be a proper trade off for these two missiles. Javelin cruise missiles should have much higher dps for the medium ranges it has. Short range being rage torpedoes (~25 km) and The long range sniping missiles being the Cruise missiles (~150km+). There is no proper medium for these javelin torpedoes (~50km)

Is there a practical scenario or aspect of javelin torpedoes I am overlooking? If so please let me know. Otherwise, some changes should be made to javelin torpedoes to make them more uselful.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-03 06:47:53 UTC
Frederick Rommel wrote:
Javelin torpedoes I feel are completely useless right now. Cruise missiles are better in every way possible to them.

Fury cruise missiles have higher dps, fury cruise missiles have nearly double the range of javelin torpedoes, cruise missile launchers require 325 less power grid and 24.2 less cpu.

It seems that cruise missiles are better in every aspect to that of javelin cruise missiles. There should be a proper trade off for these two missiles. Javelin cruise missiles should have much higher dps for the medium ranges it has. Short range being rage torpedoes (~25 km) and The long range sniping missiles being the Cruise missiles (~150km+). There is no proper medium for these javelin torpedoes (~50km)

Is there a practical scenario or aspect of javelin torpedoes I am overlooking? If so please let me know. Otherwise, some changes should be made to javelin torpedoes to make them more uselful.

True, currently torpedoes have slightly higher dps than cruises but with big trade offs in range, explosion radius, fitting requirements and even ammo size.

After the cruise missile dps was buffed i feel like that dps difference just got too small for torps to be of any real use.

With the marauders bastion module you gain 25% more range which is useful for torps but they still don't feel like nothing more than limited cruise missiles. They don't even have the cool explosion effects anymore Cry
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#3 - 2013-09-03 09:54:11 UTC
There is one practical use for javs.

Lowsec gang bomber fits.

I can't really think of any others but I DO like that one.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#4 - 2013-09-03 10:03:24 UTC
PopeUrban wrote:
There is one practical use for javs.

Lowsec gang bomber fits.

I can't really think of any others but I DO like that one.


Can you elaborate? Why not just use factions?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-03 11:14:16 UTC
Zappity wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
There is one practical use for javs.

Lowsec gang bomber fits.

I can't really think of any others but I DO like that one.


Can you elaborate? Why not just use factions?


Exactly. There is no reason to buy Javelins when you can buy factions, there's just a slight difference in velocity and inertia modifier. Don't really know the difference between having a high inertia modifier vs a low one on a missile though.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#6 - 2013-09-03 11:19:58 UTC
Javelins on a fitting bomber push the range up to 90+ km, making for some nice bombardement - navies only go some 60, which is well within megapulse range.
marVLs
#7 - 2013-09-03 11:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
I'd like them to become slow moving high damage missiles.

Range buff, javelins damage buff, rage explosion radius buff, capacity buff

With proper nerf to bombers torps range
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#8 - 2013-09-03 11:33:18 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Javelins on a fitting bomber push the range up to 90+ km, making for some nice bombardement - navies only go some 60, which is well within megapulse range.


ty

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-09-03 12:09:09 UTC
It's also fairly difficult to fit T2 launchers on a bomber, as opposed to just using arabalest launchers and faction.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#10 - 2013-09-03 12:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
The whole line of javelin has the same problem from rockets up to torps.
especially since HAMS and rockets will get a range nerf soon along with the new missile mods being worked on means javelin really needs help to do more damage and better damage application compared to the fury line of missiles.

Also they do need to sort out the fittings of SR vs LR missile launchers to follow the same layout as guns have like pulses vs beams.
rails vs blasters autos vs arties

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-09-03 12:33:26 UTC
Zappity wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
There is one practical use for javs.

Lowsec gang bomber fits.

I can't really think of any others but I DO like that one.


Can you elaborate? Why not just use factions?


lack of range.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Frederick Rommel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-09-03 14:31:27 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:


With the marauders bastion module you gain 25% more range which is useful for torps but they still don't feel like nothing more than limited cruise missiles. They don't even have the cool explosion effects anymore Cry


Even with the new Bastion module, on a Golem, Javelins will reach out to about 75km. I think that's a very good range but they just don't have the dps to back it up. I hope that CCP looks into torpedoes with winter expansion.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-10-14 18:13:34 UTC
i think the dps is ok but the applied dps of torpedo is terrible. specifically the exp velocity. while the bonus target painter does a wonderful job at making small ship big, nothing on the golem except the tiny 25% exp velocity helps against fast ships, or even a BS using an afterburner.

i think they should increase the exp velocity bonus on golem to 50% because being a torpedo boat, they dont have the option to use flare riggs.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2013-10-14 19:35:03 UTC
Frederick Rommel wrote:
Is there a practical scenario or aspect of javelin torpedoes I am overlooking? If so please let me know. Otherwise, some changes should be made to javelin torpedoes to make them more uselful.

Torpedoes just need to be buffed in general. They should really be doing about 25% more damage than cruise missiles considering the drastic range differences.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#15 - 2013-10-14 19:48:18 UTC
The only buff Torps need is to have their old explosions back.

Back in the day..when you were being torped by 20 bombers...you ******* knew it..and so did everyone else!




Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#16 - 2013-10-15 12:20:23 UTC
Mer88 wrote:

i think they should increase the exp velocity bonus on golem to 50% because being a torpedo boat, they dont have the option to use flare riggs.


Since when? I used to run mine in a Torp configuration and changed it to Cruise but with the upcoming Bastion\MJD changes you can't MJD and use Torps. Cruise Missiles go 220km or 270km when in Bastion however I can only target out to 118km but I can still MJD 100km and fire CM's that arrive on target in <10secs. from 100km out.

Torpedoes have always been short range, big damage, but it's how that damage is applied. TP's are almost always needed and the Golem should be fitted with them anyway as it's bonused (even better when the TP changes come for 5 sec cycles).

Anyway, my main point is that you can fit a lot more on a CM Golem along with the greater range that you can with a Torp Golem.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!