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Dev Blog: U and I made some changes: Odyssey 1.1. UI changes

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CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2013-09-02 22:54:02 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Generated a bug report about the conflict between new radial option and drag and drop when moving drones back and forth between in space and in the hanger using only the mouse. This causes the info window to pop up because of the radial menu pops up when you try to launch the second drone group unless you reset your drone action count by clicking some where else in the UI.
[...]
New patch still has inconsistent pop ups when radial delay is on one. Radial delay on two works correctly.
I'm looking at the bugreport and I don't understand... what do you mean bey "reset your drone action count"? Is this not just an issue of if the radial menu delay is low and you are too slow to drag you get the radial menu?


I think what he means is

Set the radial menu delay to 1 second
Spend 0.75 seconds clicking on a drone
Spend 0.75 seconds on a second drone. As you have now spent 1.5 seconds clicking on drones, the radial menu pops up, as 1.5 seconds is longer than 1 second. But this is unexpected as no single click was over 0.75 seconds.
The workaround is to click somewhere else between clicking on drones. That resets the drone counter.

Or: he could mean the game is taking the two clicks in the drone window to be a double click. Im not really sure.

Thanks vincent the issue is if you set your radial menu delay on the first option above zero even if you think you are using the same amount of time to select and pull the drone groups out of the window by the time you to it a third time you are delaying just enough you take too long and the radial menu pops up.
There is a bug that causes no options to show up when you click in the drone window but i haven't nailed down a re-pro yet.

I know the repro for the missing RM, it's when you click on the arrow.

I'm still not sure about the other thing... I've tried it out, and I have not seen that it has to do with how many times I've dragged before, just that in some cases I'm slower. I'll look better into it though Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#62 - 2013-09-02 22:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP karkur wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Generated a bug report about the conflict between new radial option and drag and drop when moving drones back and forth between in space and in the hanger using only the mouse. This causes the info window to pop up because of the radial menu pops up when you try to launch the second drone group unless you reset your drone action count by clicking some where else in the UI.
[...]
New patch still has inconsistent pop ups when radial delay is on one. Radial delay on two works correctly.
I'm looking at the bugreport and I don't understand... what do you mean bey "reset your drone action count"? Is this not just an issue of if the radial menu delay is low and you are too slow to drag you get the radial menu?


I think what he means is

Set the radial menu delay to 1 second
Spend 0.75 seconds clicking on a drone
Spend 0.75 seconds on a second drone. As you have now spent 1.5 seconds clicking on drones, the radial menu pops up, as 1.5 seconds is longer than 1 second. But this is unexpected as no single click was over 0.75 seconds.
The workaround is to click somewhere else between clicking on drones. That resets the drone counter.

Or: he could mean the game is taking the two clicks in the drone window to be a double click. Im not really sure.

Thanks vincent the issue is if you set your radial menu delay on the first option above zero even if you think you are using the same amount of time to select and pull the drone groups out of the window by the time you to it a third time you are delaying just enough you take too long and the radial menu pops up.
There is a bug that causes no options to show up when you click in the drone window but i haven't nailed down a re-pro yet.

I know the repro for the missing RM, it's when you click on the arrow.

I'm still not sure about the other thing... I've tried it out, and I have not seen that it has to do with how many times I've dragged before, just that in some cases I'm slower. I'll look better into it though Smile


Thanks it always re- prod for me when i deployed a group pulled it back in and then tried to deploy the same set again. Worked with a longer delay however.
Add:
The tracking camera also causes delays as it switches back and forth turning it off cleared up all the edge cases when i played around with it later. Having the tracking camera enabled defiantly needs to be included in your testing

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#63 - 2013-09-02 23:33:39 UTC
So what I am getting from this is that you made the *assign drones* meta easier (read worse). Way to compound a busted gang mechanic.

Time to get a goon alt specialized for sentries and go afk outside a station and come back with a dozen or more kill-mails.

thanks for that.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#64 - 2013-09-02 23:40:15 UTC
i can't get the idea out of my head that the single greatest reason why gifs still exist is the integrated eve browser... ;)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#65 - 2013-09-02 23:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Justin Cody wrote:
So what I am getting from this is that you made the *assign drones* meta easier (read worse). Way to compound a busted gang mechanic.

Time to get a goon alt specialized for sentries and go afk outside a station and come back with a dozen or more kill-mails.

thanks for that.

The fix is easy you can only assist people in your squad. CCP probably did not have time to code that change for the big release but we should see it sooner rather then later.

I am sure it was talked over at the summit. If not CSM missed a good opportunity to talk it over with CCP.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Horus V
The Destined
#66 - 2013-09-02 23:57:42 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
I disagree on the readability aspect. It's visually cleaner, but visual tidiness is not the same thing as ease of reading. With the creation of a gap between the name of the stat and its associated value, and the differing left and right side text alignment, it is now harder to tell what number belongs to what statistic. I do not consider this change to be an improvement, and would prefer that the current arrangement was maintained.


I have same opinion. This is not an improvement!

V
matarkhan
ConHugeCo
#67 - 2013-09-03 00:46:23 UTC
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the "drones in bay" UI work like the "drones in space" UI -- there is still *no way* to know which drones in your bay are damaged or not until you deploy them, which is kinda stupid.

If I have 10 Ogre IIs in a group, I deploy 5 of them and one or two of them get damaged, the next time I got to deploy drones from that group I'm going to get the same damaged drones. I can't select the ones that have no damage to deploy.

The UI is already there for the bottom half of the UI, why not just make it available for the top half?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#68 - 2013-09-03 00:54:25 UTC
matarkhan wrote:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the "drones in bay" UI work like the "drones in space" UI -- there is still *no way* to know which drones in your bay are damaged or not until you deploy them, which is kinda stupid.

If I have 10 Ogre IIs in a group, I deploy 5 of them and one or two of them get damaged, the next time I got to deploy drones from that group I'm going to get the same damaged drones. I can't select the ones that have no damage to deploy.

The UI is already there for the bottom half of the UI, why not just make it available for the top half?

The drones in the hanger are not full data points like when they are in space. To pull that info every drone in every ship would have to pull full information all the time. Which does not scale well. Brain and ship in the box should help out this issue. The coping over the last status of a used drone might be a possible work around.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2013-09-03 00:57:41 UTC
Did... did you just make the abysmal drone assist fleets like 200% easier? I think you did! Ugh.
Vultre9
Tweety Birds of Terror
#70 - 2013-09-03 01:56:24 UTC
Burhtun wrote:
Not bad, not bad. Now do this for the winter expansion please:

http://i.imgur.com/bmtY0II.jpg

Blink

EDIT: actually, this would be better:

http://i.imgur.com/ElFXFg0.jpg

A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vultre9
Tweety Birds of Terror
#71 - 2013-09-03 01:57:31 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Sylphs wrote:
Nice as a drone user i thank you but while you are at it, can we have the undock button back where it belongs (ie bottom left corner) please?
No, sorry. This was actually discussed at the meeting with CSM 8 last week.

Options! always present more options!!!!
Chelso
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#72 - 2013-09-03 02:00:12 UTC
The world needs more awesome like this.
Vultre9
Tweety Birds of Terror
#73 - 2013-09-03 02:01:41 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
TheLostPenguin wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Quote:
Additionally you can drop drones onto groups to move them into that group.


What happens if I have drones in Group A in space, and in a rush to get them back while under fire I drag the drone (which is under Drones In Space -> Group A) to a group under Drones In Bay instead of the top-level folder? Do they change group and come back? Just come back (probably what I intended)? Just change group?


This was the one thing that stuck out in my mind too during reading, how exactly this scenario will unfold could do with being clarified, and ideally it'll work such that any drags between in bay/space folders simply launch/recall drones without any grouping changes occurring, else a nice feature could end up mildly infuriating when your drone groups get messed up or worse yet it simply fails silently because you accidentally tried to mix types together in a group.

Yeah... now it works so the drone is launched/recalled and then moved....but I have been wondering if we should change it so if the drone is not in the same location, it will only be launched/recalled.
Let's see how it goes P

In a panic or rushed situation you don't want to have to make precise movements. The more general you can do something the better in my opinion. You don't want to have to be re-organizing drone groups on the fly in the middle of combat. Perhaps if you double clicked the drone group it would recall also to try to make it 'safer'?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#74 - 2013-09-03 02:05:50 UTC
Vultre9 wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
TheLostPenguin wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Quote:
Additionally you can drop drones onto groups to move them into that group.


What happens if I have drones in Group A in space, and in a rush to get them back while under fire I drag the drone (which is under Drones In Space -> Group A) to a group under Drones In Bay instead of the top-level folder? Do they change group and come back? Just come back (probably what I intended)? Just change group?


This was the one thing that stuck out in my mind too during reading, how exactly this scenario will unfold could do with being clarified, and ideally it'll work such that any drags between in bay/space folders simply launch/recall drones without any grouping changes occurring, else a nice feature could end up mildly infuriating when your drone groups get messed up or worse yet it simply fails silently because you accidentally tried to mix types together in a group.

Yeah... now it works so the drone is launched/recalled and then moved....but I have been wondering if we should change it so if the drone is not in the same location, it will only be launched/recalled.
Let's see how it goes P

In a panic or rushed situation you don't want to have to make precise movements. The more general you can do something the better in my opinion. You don't want to have to be re-organizing drone groups on the fly in the middle of combat. Perhaps if you double clicked the drone group it would recall also to try to make it 'safer'?

Having more drones out of group at the top of the window also makes the area you can drag to bigger.
That is why the radial menu needs a recall to drone bay button on the first layer of the radial menu. That will always work and is a bigger target.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Aquinas II
PostgreSQL
#75 - 2013-09-03 02:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquinas II
These are welcome changes. Well done!

I hope you guys are keeping a full drone UI overhaul near the top of your UI to-do list for an upcoming expansion. Ever since the rat AI changes, drones have been more hassle than they're worth in many cases. Look to other MMO's that successfully/gracefully allow you to manage "pet" targeting, healing, aggro, launching, recalling and engaging in specific activities. One solution would to be able to right click on a drone group and select an action like recall to drone bay and turn that action into a button with the rest of the modules. So if I so desired I could have F1 launch a flight of Warrior IIs and F2 attack current target. I could create a button for launch Hammerheads. If I press this one while my Warriors are still deployed, they'd automatically disengage, return to bay and the Hammers would launch once all warriors were in the bay (or killed).

Drones should follow the UI principle that common actions should be easy, and with all (legit) actions being possible. This isn't really a UI issue per-se, but a module that would clear NPC's aggro on your drones and prevent NPCs from targeting them while they return to bay for x seconds would be most helpful (a PvE drone "feign death" if you will). Also a way to easily manage healing your drones would be great. A highs lot auto repper that automatically reps drones shields/armor/hull when the drone is orbiting you without having to target the drone individually might be reasonable this could use a punitive amount of cap, or be disabled when in a PvP engagement, or some other way to prevent PvP abuse. The other idea would be a module that automatically repairs all damage to drones in your drone bay, but it happens very slowly (to limit it in PvP situations).
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#76 - 2013-09-03 03:38:49 UTC
Burhtun wrote:
Not bad, not bad. Now do this for the winter expansion please:

http://i.imgur.com/bmtY0II.jpg

Blink

EDIT: actually, this would be better:

http://i.imgur.com/ElFXFg0.jpg



OMG those launch and recall buttons on the drone window YES YES.

Have my babies plznow.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#77 - 2013-09-03 07:15:51 UTC
Karkur you're incredible <3

Quote:
While I was poking at that drone window, I fixed that incredibly annoying random collapse of the "Drones in Bay" and "Drones in Local space" folders so now you will not have to reopen those sections again and again.


<33333 finally! This has been the biggest usability issue in the drone UI. Along with the ability to drag & drop drones between space and bay, drone usability got a major buff.

Quote:
we are changing that nonsensical order to alphabetic order so now it will hopefully be easier for you guys to find the folder you want to save your bookmark in.


YES!

Quote:
names are listed on the left, with the values aligned to the right hands side of the window.


<3

Thanks :)

.
Ber Strider
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-09-03 07:43:51 UTC
Question: Is it possible to hang the control buttons on the drone drones folder to the context menu does not control them, and right-click the folder with the drones (eg arrange buttons attaching to the right side in the same line as the name of a group of drones.). At least button start / landing, the attack / return, the orbit. 3 small buttons at once on a group with a certain type of drones - and how much comfort?

secondly, the automatic creation of the hangar with drones for each type of drone.

third, by combining weapons in hi-hi osvobozhadyutsya slots slots on the function keys F1, F2 ... - Proposal: allow the group to hang with drones in a slot on the dashboard, rather than in the service equipment. so it would be very convenient to choose a goal just press, for example, F4: once - run drone by goal - to attack a second time, or automatically when choosing a target and pressing the - start-up and attack the selected target.

Fourth, if there are no more goals after the destruction of the latter - the drones automatically return to the drone hangar.

Вопрос: нельзя ли повесить кнопки управления дронами на папки с дронами, чтобы не контекстным меню ими упарвлять, а сразу кнопками на папке с дронами (например расположить кнопки прикрепив к правой стороне в той же строке, где и название группы дронов.). Хотя бы кнопку запуск/посадка, атака/вернуть, орбита. 3 небольшие кнопки сразу на группе с определённым видом дронов - а сколько удобства?!

второе: автоматическое создание группы в ангаре с дронами под каждый тип дронов.

третье: при объединении вооружения в хай-слотах освобожадются хай слоты по функциональным клавишам F1, F2... - предложение: дайте возможность группу с дронами повесить в такой слот на приборной панели ,а не в службе оснащения. так было бы очень удобно выбрав цель просто нажать клавишу, например, F4: один раз - запуск дронов, выбрав цель - второй раз атака, или автоматом при выборе цели и нажатии клавиши - запуск и атака выбранной цели.

четвёртое: если нет больше целей после уничтожения последней - дроны автоматом возвращаются в дрон-ангар.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#79 - 2013-09-03 08:10:02 UTC
"While I was poking at that drone window, I fixed that incredibly annoying random collapse of the "Drones in Bay" and "Drones in Local space" folders so now you will not have to reopen those sections again and again."

For this alone my quality of life has improved massivly!!!! THANKYOU SO MUCH!!!
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-09-03 13:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
The drone UI changes are better than nothing I guess but it will still cause some RSI... What?

In my mind, it will be "fixed" when the drones are controlled through something like the ship wheel which uses buttons.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...