EVE General Discussion

Well I am just saying that if your reason and logic really entail that you believe such a thing that we can dismiss you and your entire line of thinking because somewhere it has gone corrupt and that everything that you have ever said can be put into question.

I might be losing the meta game however, because I fear I might be the one being trolled at this point rather than doing the trolling.

(You know how difficult it is to come up with a contrary opinion when you really don't care about these things. Its fun though. Excercises the mind.)

I am just saying if you can't accept the fact that renters rent because they make more money than they would in high sec, then well I guess you can't accept any other facts that may come into question.

But I guess you couldn't accept this fact either so there is little hope in that you see the error in your ways.

Remember what I said earlier though.

…except, of course, that I have never disputed that they can earn more. I've only explained why this does not contradict the fact that large portions of nullsec gameplay and content is hideously broken.

Yes, I know that you're trolling, but that's ok. Poe's law and all that. So I'll use you as a proxy for those who genuinely believe this.

130m an hour is more than I can make in -1.0 true sec running anoms usually, that caps out around 100m an hour....using two accounts.

Ok. So you agree that renters can make more money then they would if they were in high sec.

Then are you arguing that renters and the like need even more isk then get right now to solve the problem?

But then what exactly is the problem... Is it that highsec people make too much money for your tastes?

How can you mathematically make an equation to scientifically prove that people in high sec make too much money.

Have you polled each of the people in high sec for their income and plotted data like how many ships they lost versus say how much people in null sec make versus how many ships they lost?

No. The truth of the matter you have formulated an opnion that you believe that high sec makes too much money out of personal bias for that style of play.

There is no evidence you can put forth that is scientific or non-anecdotal.

I mean if you are going to say there is a large portion of null dissatisfied with their income versus high sec, I can simply turn around and say I know plenty of people who rent and are completly satisfied with null.

Yes and no, in that order.

The problem is that many highsec activities, most notably industry and mission-running, offer too much bang for too little buck to too many people. It creates a benchmark that offers little to no margin where other areas and activities can be better, making it next to impossible to properly balance those other areas without introducing even bigger problems in terms of (macro)economical impact and individual draw.

By looking at the incomes, costs, and availabilities involved, as shown in-game, in the database, and by the statistics released by CCP, and quickly noticing that you get a lot more for a lot less in highsec.

The economy isnt balanced though, it's never been balanced, it's skewed towards null sec to entice people to visit. People do missions for enjoyment not making isk as it's already been pointed out missions are not the most efficient ways of earning money just one of the more enjoyable. I run missions for fun despite the fact that I can earn more mining in the two wormhole systems our alliance holds, not to mention the proceeds of the sleeper sites. I can do the same in null as we have a strong null sec presence and can hit ded sites and complexes all day or get the best ores mining etc. The missons are fun and relaxing but my bank and assett balance is better after a stint in null.

How do you determine how much is too much and that too many people do it? That is completly subjective. What is too much for a high sec person to make a month? 500 million? 1 billion? 2 billion? How do you take these numbers and say "Oh that is too much for too little risk." Secondly, how can you personally determine risk? Have you looked at losses through activities? Is that data even available?



I've never seen this data compiled in any meaningful way. How are you getting incomes data? I don't even think CCP gives recents numbers. I googled "EVE online player income" and the top hit was this thread.

The problem with your way of thinking is that CCP has all the data and numbers, but they don't seem to be making the same conclusion as you.

If it was so imbalanced and terrible as you say then why haven't they reduced bounties and mission rewards in the latest patch?

There must be a reason not to then, no?

If it is as terrible as you think it as, then create a webpage with links to CCP data and prove it. Don't just say the data exists somewhere.

"Like it or not" is not a real concern.

We had serious economy issues because of some ISK faucets (first incursions worsened that) and because of that copious loot.

Considering I have 4 missioning characters with > 9.8 standings, a number of faction / deadspace fitted BSs and marauders etc., the nerf hit me as well. But it had to be done. Minerals were free falling worse than now, we had times when Tritanium floated at 1.2 ISK pu.

I greatly enjoyed building my own freighters and capital ships with the reprocessed loots, but... foresight and ability to look past the immediate selfish interest is a rare quality someone HAS to have.

We were heading against a wall (and then again, with pre-nerf incursion and then with pre-nerf FW buffed missions), painful measures needed to be taken.

Finally, having 1.2 ISK Trit is bad for the space poor who actually live on that: miners, newbies. The others either pass any cost to the end user (builders) or have ISK enough to cope (older players playing large ships, alliances offering ships replacement programs).

When I started the game, Trit was selling at 2.7 ISK p.u. It was not easy nor quick to get to my first 50M, before I understood that the rookie chat ISD advices (they told every new player to mine) were not very good and I switched to trading.

I should shut up now and stop telling the public that 120m ISK/h is easy doable with L4. You still don't believe it read my posts in this topic and try it out yourself. The funny thing is without so many peeps thinking it isn't possible, it won't be, because if everybody does it ISK/LP would crash below 1k ISK/LP rather quick. When CCP changed all Agents to Q20, i actually thought it would be the end of blitzing missions for LPs because EVE would be flooded with them but hey guess i was wrong.

My final advice, try it out yourself (i explained it in detail -how to- in my other posts) or go on and waste your time with subpar ISK/h grinding stuff