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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#841 - 2013-09-02 20:26:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
did he just link a bunch of the meta 0 catalysts being used for the isotope interdiction?
which, has nothing to do with freighter ganking?

Desperate times call for desperate measures, regardless of relevance.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#842 - 2013-09-02 20:28:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
did he just link a bunch of the meta 0 catalysts being used for the isotope interdiction?
which, has nothing to do with freighter ganking?


Looks that way.

I have just looked through 18 freighters from last month and over 90% of the ships we used had t2 weapons and magstabs and were rigged.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#843 - 2013-09-02 20:29:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Basically free = so little as to be inconsequential, you really are a pedant aren't you?


I think basically free is a problem; you're one of the folks arguing that it's not basically free - remember?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#844 - 2013-09-02 20:39:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
did he just link a bunch of the meta 0 catalysts being used for the isotope interdiction?
which, has nothing to do with freighter ganking?


Looks that way.

I have just looked through 18 freighters from last month and over 90% of the ships we used had t2 weapons and magstabs and were rigged.


Actually, I just grabbed the first few pilots from one of the already posted freighter kills.

Since your currently stated goal is to manipulate the market rather than make a profit off the actual kills, it doesn't seem like a fair indication to use your most recent losses. However, I just jumped on your killboard, cross-referenced the first Freighter kill, and it still looks like the majority aren't using t2 so... all signs point to you being full of **** unless you'd like to present something more concrete.
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#845 - 2013-09-02 20:39:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:


Even if they fitted cargohold expanders, it would not matter because then at least they had the choice to install other modules. Now they don't have a choice.


I want to keep my big cargohold and not be forced to do twice as many trips because a handfull of fools were easily parted with their money.


Are you saying you've never flown a freighter on autopilot ever?

If yes, do you always, at all times keep a ship one system ahead so you can web your freighter into warp?

I think not. People who lose their freighters are not necessarily fools, some are just unlucky.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#846 - 2013-09-02 20:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Basically free = so little as to be inconsequential, you really are a pedant aren't you?


I think basically free is a problem; you're one of the folks arguing that it's not basically free - remember?

Stop taking things out of context, the 1/2 million isk fitted noobship was an extreme case presented to prove that it was indeed possible to gank a freighter, for a minimal monetary investment, in highsec, with noobships, providing you had enough personnel to carry it off, as a counterpoint to your figure of 1600 + noobships that are actually free. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's a grossly inefficient use of personnel, 120 pilots would be much better employed ganking 4 freighters with Catalysts than 1 freighter with noobships. The only people I can see doing it are Goons, and even then it would be for shiggles and tears, because the return on personnel investment is shite.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#847 - 2013-09-02 20:44:43 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


Actually, I just grabbed the first few pilots from one of the already posted freighter kills.

Since your currently stated goal is to manipulate the market rather than make a profit off the actual kills, it doesn't seem like a fair indication to use your most recent losses. However, I just jumped on your killboard, cross-referenced the first Freighter kill, and it still looks like the majority aren't using t2 so... all signs point to you being full of **** unless you'd like to present something more concrete.


Having looked through last months records we in fact used t2 fitted talos and brutix more than catalysts.

Could you link these suspect kills and I will further investigate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#848 - 2013-09-02 20:45:52 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:


Are you saying you've never flown a freighter on autopilot ever?

If yes, do you always, at all times keep a ship one system ahead so you can web your freighter into warp?

I think not. People who lose their freighters are not necessarily fools, some are just unlucky.


I have never flown my freighter AFK nor have I ever stuffed ten billion into its hold.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#849 - 2013-09-02 20:59:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Having looked through last months records we in fact used t2 fitted talos and brutix more than catalysts.

Could you link these suspect kills and I will further investigate.


The stated assumption was catalysts so I looked at catalysts. Are you having trouble keeping numbers up for the interdiction?

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Context is important, so important that you should have actually clarified exactly what you meant at the time.


Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Stop taking things out of context,


Right....

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
the 1/2 million isk fitted noobship was an extreme case presented to prove that it was indeed possible to gank a freighter, for a minimal monetary investment, in highsec, with noobships, providing you had enough personnel to carry it off, as a counterpoint to your figure of 1600 + noobships that are actually free. Nothing more, nothing less.


Uh... that's nice? You don't counter an argument by adopting assumptions that are completely unrelated; it doesn't make any sense. Further, "minimal monetary investment" (not really minimal since the cats are the same price and require less manpower) and "basically free" are both problematic so I'm not sure why you're fixated on differentiating them.

Quote:
The only people I can see doing it are Goons, and even then it would be for shiggles and tears, because the return on personnel investment is shite.


Making more money than a similar number of people running incursions with multi-billion isk ships while also getting to pvp and blow up shiny's doesn't sound like a bad personnel investment to me. Admittedly, I'm sure they have enough ISK from their new rental empire that they don't care.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#850 - 2013-09-02 21:02:24 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


The stated assumption was catalysts so I looked at catalysts. Are you having trouble keeping numbers up for the interdiction?



The interdiction has nothing at all to do with freighter ganking. Why would I count them in with our freighter records?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#851 - 2013-09-02 21:04:04 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


Making more money than a similar number of people running incursions with multi-billion isk ships while also getting to pvp and blow up shiny's doesn't sound like a bad personnel investment to me. Admittedly, I'm sure they have enough ISK from their new rental empire that they don't care.





We make less than running level 4s.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#852 - 2013-09-02 21:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Context is important, so important that you should have actually clarified exactly what you meant at the time.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Stop taking things out of context,

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
the 1/2 million isk fitted noobship was an extreme case presented to prove that it was indeed possible to gank a freighter, for a minimal monetary investment, in highsec, with noobships, providing you had enough personnel to carry it off, as a counterpoint to your figure of 1600 + noobships that are actually free. Nothing more, nothing less.


Where did I not provide context? Please point it out to me, so that I can learn from it. I've even linked the original post to make it easy for you. Please note the words "assuming" and "ideal", they infer a hypothetical scenario.

You said it required 1600+ noobships to gank a freighter in highsec, I said it did not, and provided evidence to back up my statement. It was a purely hypothetical scenario and an extreme case was used to illustrate it.

Minimal monetary investment - 1/2 million isk PER SHIP, or did you somehow miss that bit?

S Byerley wrote:

Making more money than a similar number of people running incursions with multi-billion isk ships while also getting to pvp and blow up shiny's doesn't sound like a bad personnel investment to me. Admittedly, I'm sure they have enough ISK from their new rental empire that they don't care.
I'm fairly sure that 30 incursion runners make a fuckton more isk per hour than 30 suicide gankers do. If you have evidence to the contrary then present it.

Oh wait, you can't because you have none.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dave Stark
#853 - 2013-09-02 21:22:59 UTC
i like how the only one left defending dumb freighter pilots is an obvious troll. did the actual freighter pilots run out of legitimate, even if incorrect, arguments?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#854 - 2013-09-02 21:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Please point it out to me, so that I can learn from it.


No thanks; you're boring and lack the self-awareness to better yourself.

Quote:
I'm fairly sure that 30 incursions runners make a fuckton more isk per hour than 30 suicide gankers do. If you have evidence to the contrary then present it.

Oh wait, you can't because you have none.


Current estimates for incursion income are ~60m-140m/hr depending on logistics and competition. Significantly less than both blitzing lvl 4's and estimates of ganking income. Unless baltec wants to be more forthcoming, best guess is that ganking is as good or better isk/hr.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#855 - 2013-09-02 21:31:52 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Please point it out to me, so that I can learn from it.


No thanks; you're boring and lack the self-awareness to better yourself.

You mean that you can't.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#856 - 2013-09-02 21:42:29 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


Current estimates for incursion income are ~60m-100m/hr depending on logistics and competition. Significantly less than both blitzing lvl 4's and estimates of ganking income. Unless baltec wants to be more forthcoming, best guess is that ganking is as good or better isk/hr.


Incursion income is beaten only by trade income.


Infact total incursion income in one month is last reported at 9.6 trillion. We don't even manage to kill a trillion let alone earn that in profits every month.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#857 - 2013-09-02 21:52:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infact total incursion income in one month is last reported at 9.6 trillion. We don't even manage to kill a trillion let alone earn that in profits every month.


You also don't commit nearly as many people or do nearly as much grinding - nor are you the only people ganking. Since profession income is always compared primarily with isk/hr/person, your figure is worthless at best and a sad attempt at dishonest data manipulation at worst.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#858 - 2013-09-02 21:57:10 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infact total incursion income in one month is last reported at 9.6 trillion. We don't even manage to kill a trillion let alone earn that in profits every month.


You also don't commit nearly as many people or do nearly as much grinding - nor are you the only people ganking. Since profession income is always compared primarily with isk/hr/person, your figure is worthless at best and a sad attempt at dishonest data manipulation at worst.


If freighter ganking was a bigger earner than incursions then why do only 30 to 40 die on average a month?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#859 - 2013-09-02 22:20:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infact total incursion income in one month is last reported at 9.6 trillion. We don't even manage to kill a trillion let alone earn that in profits every month.


You also don't commit nearly as many people or do nearly as much grinding - nor are you the only people ganking. Since profession income is always compared primarily with isk/hr/person, your figure is worthless at best and a sad attempt at dishonest data manipulation at worst.


If freighter ganking was a bigger earner than incursions then why do only 30 to 40 die on average a month?


Not sure where/how you're getting 30-40 a month, but numbers are generally low because of decency and disinterest - two things you really ought not to balance a sandbox around.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#860 - 2013-09-02 22:46:47 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


Not sure where/how you're getting 30-40 a month, but numbers are generally low because of decency and disinterest - two things you really ought not to balance a sandbox around.


I get it from the publicly available records.

Also that excuse for the low numbers isn't going to wash. The shear number of bots out there is proof enough of that.