These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Technology and Research Center » Player Features and Ideas Discussion » Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page4041424344Next pageLast page

Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

S Byerley

The Manhattan Engineer District

Likes received: 158

#821 - 2013-09-02 19:05:50 UTC

Dave Stark wrote:

S Byerley wrote:

TheGunslinger42 wrote:

If it's "too easy" now then why is it at the lowest it has been in the history of the game?

Lol? It's not.

As for the rookie ship silliness, you'd cap a non-reinforced node so... good luck with that.

citation needed.

Obelisk = 202k thermal ehp
Velator = 5-7dps
Concord response time = 7-18s

=> 1604 - 5772 required Velators with no margin of errors.

Realistically, you're going to have heavy TiDi and coordination issues regardless so you need a decent margin => > 2k Velators => system will start freaking out and not letting people in if not reinforced.

Oh, did you mean the ridiculous claim that Freighter ganking is at an all-time low? You'll have to bug Gunslinger about that since the burden of proof is on him.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#822 - 2013-09-02 19:34:40 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

S Byerley wrote:

[Velator, gank]

2x Light Neutron Blaster II (Void S)

2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

2x Hobgoblin II

All skills at V 206 DPS overheated

An Obelisks EHP against blaster fire is 202363
Assuming a 0.5 or 0.6 system, with pre-baited Concord, gives a Concord response time of 15-18 seconds.
Going with 15 seconds as it's the faster response time you need to deliver a rounded up 13491 damage points per second. 13491/206=65.49, so under ideal conditions 66 max gank Velators are required to destroy an Obelisk before Concord turns up at a cost of around 4.1 million isk per ship. Call it 80 to account for Murphy's Law and pilot error.

That's nowhere near your numbers.

[Velator, meta 0 cheap as chips gank]

2x Light Neutron Blaster I (Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S)

2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

2x Hobgoblin I

All skills V 132 DPS overheated

Same scenario 103 meta 0 fitted Velators, at around 500,000 isk per ship, required under ideal conditions, call it 120 to account for Murphy and pilot error, still nowhere near your figures.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack


S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District Likes received: 158	#823 - 2013-09-02 19:41:31 UTC Jonah Gravenstein wrote: [Let's spend 4.4m fitting a Velator despite the previous assumption that it's free!] That's nowhere near your numbers. I wonder why?


Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards Likes received: 28,489	#824 - 2013-09-02 19:43:02 UTC \| Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein Now read the post again, you can effectively gank an Obelisk for circa 1/2 million isk per ship. That's basically free. No ganker in their right mind is going to gank with a civilian blaster equipped ship, your scenario is completely unrealistic. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack

S Byerley

The Manhattan Engineer District

Likes received: 158

#825 - 2013-09-02 19:49:58 UTC

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Now read the post again, you can effectively gank an Obelisk for circa 1/2 million isk per ship. That's basically free. No ganker in their right mind is going to gank with a civilian blaster equipped ship, your scenario is completely unrealistic.

No thanks, you adopted a completely different assumption and then wondered why my result was different so I explained. It was in response to a reductio ad absurdum argument so naturally the scenario is unrealistic.

Incidentally, 120*500k > 30*1.5m

Dave Stark

Likes received: 7,950

#826 - 2013-09-02 19:50:15 UTC | Edited by: Dave Stark

S Byerley wrote:

Dave Stark wrote:

S Byerley wrote:

TheGunslinger42 wrote:

If it's "too easy" now then why is it at the lowest it has been in the history of the game?

Lol? It's not.

As for the rookie ship silliness, you'd cap a non-reinforced node so... good luck with that.

citation needed.

that wasn't the citation i was asking for. if you can't provide citation we'll have to assume you're lying, again.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#827 - 2013-09-02 19:53:32 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

Where does 1.5M come from? I'm presuming you're referring to Catalysts?

If so show me a viable gank Catalyst that can be fitted for 1.5 million isk, a basic meta 0 Catalyst is circa 2 million isk to fit and grossly inefficient at the job.

120 meta 0 fitted noobships is actually around the same cost as 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Bat Country Pandemic Horde 19,001
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#828 - 2013-09-02 19:57:19 UTC 1 Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where does 1.5M come from? I'm presuming you're referring to Catalysts? If so show me a viable gank Catalyst that can be fitted for 1.5 million isk, a basic meta 0 Catalyst is circa 2 million isk to fit and grossly inefficient at the job. We use t2 mostly so I would like to know where to get these cheap things from.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#829 - 2013-09-02 20:00:53 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

baltec1 wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

We use t2 mostly so I would like to know where to get these cheap things from.

Out of his backside, much like his posting?

PS please clarify that it's him and not me that the question is aimed at, I know I'm terribad, but that sort of association makes me look even worse Cry

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack


S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District Likes received: 158	#830 - 2013-09-02 20:02:05 UTC Dave Stark wrote: that wasn't the citation i was asking for. if you can't provide citation we'll have to assume you're lying, again. In which case you first have to assume that Gunslinger was lying, making my comment irrelevant. I'm comfortable with that.

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#831 - 2013-09-02 20:07:51 UTC

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

We use t2 mostly so I would like to know where to get these cheap things from.

Out of his backside, much like his posting?

PS please clarify that it's him and not me that the question is aimed at, I know I'm terribad, but that sort of association makes me look even worse Cry

Everyone.

I feel its nice to give out some facts for everyone every so often to help as they often get lost in these merry go rounds.

S Byerley

The Manhattan Engineer District

Likes received: 158

#832 - 2013-09-02 20:11:14 UTC

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Only if you rig it, and no it's not.

Quote:

120 meta 0 fitted noobships is actually around the same cost as 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts.

Are you saying then that 30 meta 0 fitter Catalysts are free? If high sec ganking with cats = 0 cost, we still have a problem.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#833 - 2013-09-02 20:15:53 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

S Byerley wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Only if you rig it, and no it's not.

Quote:

120 meta 0 fitted noobships is actually around the same cost as 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts.

Are you saying then that 30 meta 0 fitter Catalysts are free? If high sec ganking with cats = 0 cost, we still have a problem.

Why wouldn't your rig it? Small hybrid weapons rigs are cheap as chips, Around 250-300k total for both a small hybrid burst aerator I and a small hybrid collision accelerator I

I never said 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts were free, I never said that 120 meta 0 fitted noobships were either, in fact I stated categorically they cost around 1/2 million isk each fitted.

You need to inject reading comprehension into your life.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

S Byerley

The Manhattan Engineer District

Likes received: 158

#834 - 2013-09-02 20:18:14 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

We use t2 mostly so I would like to know where to get these cheap things from.


S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District Likes received: 158	#835 - 2013-09-02 20:20:35 UTC Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That's basically free Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I never said 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts were free, I never said that 120 meta 0 fitted noobships were either I see....

Mycool Jahksn

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 72

#836 - 2013-09-02 20:21:01 UTC

Mallak Azaria wrote:

Infinity Ziona wrote:

Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.

If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca.

Even if they fitted cargohold expanders, it would not matter because then at least they had the choice to install other modules. Now they don't have a choice.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#837 - 2013-09-02 20:22:48 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

S Byerley wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

That's basically free

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I never said 30 meta 0 fitted Catalysts were free, I never said that 120 meta 0 fitted noobships were either

I see....

Basically free = so little as to be inconsequential, you really are a pedant aren't you?

I wrote:

you can effectively gank an Obelisk for circa 1/2 million isk per ship. That's basically free.

I've bolded the bit you conveniently edited out to support your pants on head argument.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#838 - 2013-09-02 20:23:20 UTC

S Byerley wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

We use t2 mostly so I would like to know where to get these cheap things from.

Looking through our records and our current stockpile of ships we use t2 and meta fits on most ships.


baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#839 - 2013-09-02 20:24:48 UTC Mycool Jahksn wrote: Even if they fitted cargohold expanders, it would not matter because then at least they had the choice to install other modules. Now they don't have a choice. I want to keep my big cargohold and not be forced to do twice as many trips because a handfull of fools were easily parted with their money.


Dave Stark Likes received: 7,950	#840 - 2013-09-02 20:25:15 UTC did he just link a bunch of the meta 0 catalysts being used for the isotope interdiction? which, has nothing to do with freighter ganking?

First pagePrevious page4041424344Next pageLast page