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One more patch note for Odessy 1.1 plz?

Author
Splinter McIron
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-31 15:15:51 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2900665#post2900665

CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.




Remember to amend the EULA and protect those of us who don't want to worry about being banned for helping out eve-central, eve markets, and other websites by using EVEMon's market uploader. I may live in a tinfoil house with a tinfoil hat, but I'd rather not get banned *and* be able to contribute my market data from my little corner of the map.
Splinter McIron
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-02 16:54:19 UTC
Now that it's a monday, and you guys are at work...
Toam Isu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-09-02 19:23:04 UTC
ok .. whats cache scrapping and why would anyone want to do it?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#4 - 2013-09-02 19:41:21 UTC
Toam Isu wrote:
ok .. whats cache scrapping and why would anyone want to do it?


It can be used to collect market data after your client loads it and I think can be read to get info from local

The Drake is a Lie

Toam Isu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-09-02 20:00:58 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Toam Isu wrote:
ok .. whats cache scrapping and why would anyone want to do it?


It can be used to collect market data after your client loads it and I think can be read to get info from local



ok thx... why is that bad? if its just market data?
Narma Saldana
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-09-02 22:49:13 UTC
Your client catches all kinds of data, not just market and some of this can be used to make botting or similar programs work better, thats why CCP put it in the EULA.
Splinter McIron
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-09-03 11:36:13 UTC
Toam Isu wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Toam Isu wrote:
ok .. whats cache scrapping and why would anyone want to do it?


It can be used to collect market data after your client loads it and I think can be read to get info from local



ok thx... why is that bad? if its just market data?


Market bots use cache scraping to instantly undercut people. Have you ever sold something in Jita only to see yourself .01 isked within seconds? Then again and again? That's a market bot using cache scraping.

As quoted, CCP said they have no issue with the core concept of things like the evemon cache scraper, they just don't want it being used for bots. So long as the EULA is reworded from its current of "We can ban you for looking at the cache files" to "We can ban you for looking at the cache files *and* using that to harm the game" then I am happy.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-09-03 11:43:11 UTC
Splinter McIron wrote:
Toam Isu wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Toam Isu wrote:
ok .. whats cache scrapping and why would anyone want to do it?


It can be used to collect market data after your client loads it and I think can be read to get info from local



ok thx... why is that bad? if its just market data?


Market bots use cache scraping to instantly undercut people. Have you ever sold something in Jita only to see yourself .01 isked within seconds? Then again and again? That's a market bot using cache scraping.

As quoted, CCP said they have no issue with the core concept of things like the evemon cache scraper, they just don't want it being used for bots. So long as the EULA is reworded from its current of "We can ban you for looking at the cache files" to "We can ban you for looking at the cache files *and* using that to harm the game" then I am happy.

I prefer it the way it is. It gives CCP a broader scope to apply bans, rewording it makes it narrower and more able to be grey lined. I'm sure CCP will not ban you for using the cache in a non-exploitative way.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Splinter McIron
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-03 11:54:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I prefer it the way it is. It gives CCP a broader scope to apply bans, rewording it makes it narrower and more able to be grey lined. I'm sure CCP will not ban you for using the cache in a non-exploitative way.


I'm not sure, that is why I want it better defined. Broad powers are bad powers.
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-09-03 13:31:20 UTC
Splinter McIron wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I prefer it the way it is. It gives CCP a broader scope to apply bans, rewording it makes it narrower and more able to be grey lined. I'm sure CCP will not ban you for using the cache in a non-exploitative way.


I'm not sure, that is why I want it better defined. Broad powers are bad powers.


It's a non-issue IMO.

A CCP response says explicitly: CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.

The EULA still says: We can ban you any time we like without reason. It's our game and we can kick you off it if we want to. (might be paraphrasing a little)

Whether the EULA is amended to provide more clarity on cache scraping is irrelevant in the likelihood of being banned. It would encourage meta gaming of the EULA terms in attempts to make harmful stuff skirt as close to the definition as possible and will be strongly touted to help sales of said harmful stuff.

The EULA language needs to encompass as many possibilities and hitherto unforeseen circumstances as it can, and the narrower in scope the defined terms, the more difficult this becomes.

I'm very sure that the many thousands of users of EveMon and the market data aggregators that use cache scraping functions have no fear of being banned. These tools have been around a long time, CCP are very aware and have never banned anyone for just using that (anyone says they did is very probably lying about the bots they were running)