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A Real Criticism of CCP
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#161 - 2013-09-02 10:00:42 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
You're not learning anything about how to play EVE by mining in high sec. I'm quite certain you mastered the activity of mining by the time you were done with the requisite tutorial mission, and therefore need no more study in the matter.
And you'd be quite wrong. There is actually quite a bit more to mining, at least doing it profitably and well. I'm not even a miner and I know that. And I'll agree it's quite possibly the single most boring activity in the entire game. But unfortunately it is necessary. Somebody has gotta pull the ore, so the ships can be built, and then they can be blown up. Just the way the game works.


Actually, I'm not wrong at all. Mining consists of exactly nothing more than targeting an asteroid and activating your lasers. The game does the rest. Figuring out the market, which ore is profitable and which is not, is an entirely different activity that transcends mining, and can be applied to a vast multitude of economic activity in EVE.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#162 - 2013-09-02 10:16:36 UTC
Forum Damsel wrote:
You seem to be missing the point the OP was making.
You mean the point that old players (who should know better) feel like they can't retaliate against people attacking them? No, I got that point just fine. I know he stuck a “think of the newbies” on at the end, but that wasn't actually what he was complaining about — it was just a very silly attempt to make his own decisions look like a systematic problem.

Quote:
It is simple. NOOBs still learning the game and not yet knowledgable as to their options are being jumped and ganked.
Newbies still learning the game only really need to know one thing: how to report people for attacking newbies, since the GMs take a very dim view to that kind of behaviour.

The main problem is that they are forced into remaining n00bs even after their newbie period since they get lied to by large clusters of older n00bs who never learned to play the game and who keep perpetuating myths such as it being impossible to retaliate.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#163 - 2013-09-02 10:25:18 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:


Actually, I'm not wrong at all. Mining consists of exactly nothing more than targeting an asteroid and activating your lasers. The game does the rest. Figuring out the market, which ore is profitable and which is not, is an entirely different activity that transcends mining, and can be applied to a vast multitude of economic activity in EVE.



PVP consists of nothing more than targeting a hostile and pressing F1.
What's to learn?

If you are going to dismiss it all as 'not part of mining' the same is true of PVP so he also already knows how to PVP.
I.E. Don't dismiss things you don't do as insignificant or worthless. The same works both ways.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#164 - 2013-09-02 10:33:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:


Actually, I'm not wrong at all. Mining consists of exactly nothing more than targeting an asteroid and activating your lasers. The game does the rest. Figuring out the market, which ore is profitable and which is not, is an entirely different activity that transcends mining, and can be applied to a vast multitude of economic activity in EVE.



PVP consists of nothing more than targeting a hostile and pressing F1.
What's to learn?

If you are going to dismiss it all as 'not part of mining' the same is true of PVP so he also already knows how to PVP.
I.E. Don't dismiss things you don't do as insignificant or worthless. The same works both ways.

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Eli Kzanti
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2013-09-02 10:41:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:


Actually, I'm not wrong at all. Mining consists of exactly nothing more than targeting an asteroid and activating your lasers. The game does the rest. Figuring out the market, which ore is profitable and which is not, is an entirely different activity that transcends mining, and can be applied to a vast multitude of economic activity in EVE.



PVP consists of nothing more than targeting a hostile and pressing F1.
What's to learn?

If you are going to dismiss it all as 'not part of mining' the same is true of PVP so he also already knows how to PVP.
I.E. Don't dismiss things you don't do as insignificant or worthless. The same works both ways.

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.

I think he means ganking, mate. In which case you just warp to a belt, lock the target and press F1, putting in about as little effort as the miner is.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#166 - 2013-09-02 10:42:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.
It's kind of apparent that he was using sarcasm to make his point, and that he actually does agree with everything that you pointed out.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#167 - 2013-09-02 10:46:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.


Most people do it wrong, and refuse to even attempt to learn otherwise.

I was not, however, speaking just to PvP. There's tons of fluff and landmarks, and all sorts of different people scattered all throughout the entire game. There's missions and complexes and PvP. There's a whole world of things to do, and there's absolutely no reason at all to play the game tied to rocks in the same local asteroid belts where you finished your tutorials.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#168 - 2013-09-02 13:26:07 UTC
Sol Kal'orr wrote:
Diablo Ex wrote:
Yes, Ganking without consequence is a bad game mechanic...


Last I checked we get Concorded and I am a free target for everyone everywhere.


a terrible experience for sure.

I would love to have a new skill added to the trade skills thats called auditing (or forensic finance). With this skill you somehow (no idea how) will be able to trace wallet transactions of other players. So that players have the possibility to find alts if they do some massive research and e.g. bribe some NPC's. (say one wallet transaction per bribe and first you have to earn the right to bribe, so that you could find the transfer of wealth to the main character. can then be countered by producing a bunch of fake transactions to different alts).

This would also lead to at least the potential of risk for scammers.
voetius
Grundrisse
#169 - 2013-09-02 16:46:23 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Neo Hal wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way


Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.



Confirmed, people who blow up spaceships in a blowing up spaceships game are exactly like criminals RL.

BRB guys gotta go hold up a bank so I can buy PLEX.


Reminds me of that post a few months ago where someone replied "You don't see people running around in WoW saying I bet you kill elves in real life too ! "
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
#170 - 2013-09-02 16:48:33 UTC
It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#171 - 2013-09-02 18:24:13 UTC
Rokh can't be ganked? Pirate

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-09-02 18:24:59 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
You haven't even met all the criminals, how can you know them?


I don't know them. I'm basing my opinion on their actions. When someone steals from me then I have a tendency to not like them. LOL. But I doubt the gankers care about that too much. They're not attacking me because they want to be friends.

Benny Ohu wrote:
It sounds like you're judging a person based on possibly one act they commited in their lives! This doesn't reflect well on you.


We are all defined by our actions. I'm judging the act of jumping someone who is defenseless and stealing everything they have. As people like to say, there are consequences in Eve. If someone with a 2 billion ISK ship attacks my Venture and takes my ore, then I reserve the right to not like them! Seems like a pretty small consequence actually.

But I'll make you a deal. If you don't take it personally that I don't like you, then I won't take it personally when you steal from me.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#173 - 2013-09-02 18:30:11 UTC
Just shoot him in the face when situation will be good for it.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#174 - 2013-09-02 18:32:43 UTC
Fia Magrath wrote:
It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?


I actually agree with this a lot.

I don't think the mechanics regarding ganking really need to be changed. Newbies should stay in hi-sec where they're relatively safe. If anyone who is unprepared or unable to defend themselves goes to low-sec or 0.0 then the risk is on them and if they lose their ship then so be it.

I don't really ever go to low/null because I don't feel like I can defend myself...yet.
Danbar Roth
Tax Avoidance LTD
#175 - 2013-09-02 18:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Danbar Roth
Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#176 - 2013-09-02 18:47:43 UTC
Danbar Roth wrote:
Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!

The use of throw-away characters is most likely an incredibly overblown occurrence anyway.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#177 - 2013-09-02 19:06:17 UTC
Danbar Roth wrote:
Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!


That'd be cool.

Then people can just throw away the entire account when all three are negative. And you've solved nothing.

Ignoring the fact that Tippia is likely correct, and throw-away alts aren't as big an occurence as some people like to make out.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#178 - 2013-09-02 19:16:34 UTC
I was under the impression that biomassing a negative sec status alt was already frowned upon by CCP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#179 - 2013-09-02 20:01:58 UTC
Danbar Roth wrote:
Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!


Its a bannable offence and we do not do this or have ever done this.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#180 - 2013-09-02 20:04:17 UTC
Fia Magrath wrote:
It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?


Nope, even that goes wrong for them