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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Recently, many ethnic Minmatar have claimed that the wave of retributive violence against them throu
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Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2013-09-01 18:46:17 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Ayallah wrote:
And if you think that someone would willingly be a slave you are delusional.


There are far worse things to be. Walk down the average street in the Kingdom or Empire, go up to a slave, and ask if they'd prefer uncertainty, poverty and potentially prejudice for their beliefs, or the knowledge of a roof over their heads, food on the table and some degree of confidence in the future...

Well, it won't be unanimous either way, but human beings like certainties.


Stockholm syndrome, and being institutionalized.

If there is one thing that Amarrians are good at it is making it's chains seem the better option.

Present the question as you have and who would chose poverty? Present the chains as salvation, and people will not resist as you shackle them.

You forget, I know how it works, for I too was taught.


Rodj Blake wrote:

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?


Matar have walked willingly into exile and hardship for thousands of years to follow what god and the spirits has written on their skin.

Pick a better example.


And the story of the released slaves returning to the Empire is heartwarming, it truly is. Let them out at the nearest dock with nothing and assure yourself when they return to the only thing they have ever known, the cage.

As I said before, you will have to stop using examples straight out of the handbooks on indoctrination.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#82 - 2013-09-01 20:56:21 UTC
Thank you for your candor, Pilot Ayallah. It's a refreshing thing to see on the IGS.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-09-02 03:05:33 UTC
Pilot Ayallah, I'd actually say if there's one thing that the Amarr are good at, it's blaming the victim.

Peaceful, unthreatening spacefaring society doesn't follow Imperial culture? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence armed invasion and enslavement of their homelands.

A tribe demonstrates an end of their patience with centuries of brutal oppression, cultural destruction and unrewarded labour? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence orbital bombardment and genocide.

The society as a whole throws off its shackles and declares independence? "Now look what you made me do!" Obstruct and oppose in every possible way their recognition as an independent sovereign nation.

The new nation turns out to be fractious, in large part due to the fact that its residents were subject to a program of forcible cultural conversion intentionally designed to divest them of the skills that would allow them to survive independent of the Empire? "This is all your fault!"

You know what the most blackly amusing thing about the Empire is? If they had approached the Minmatar in the same way they had the Khanid - in the manner of offering peaceful incorporation into the Empire as valued allies - there's every possibility that it could have worked. Consider that the Minmatar had, at the point the Empire discovered them, reached a higher level of technological and cultural progression than any of the other societies they had encountered, and in some areas their technological understanding surpassed that of the Amarr. Allowing them into the Empire more or less as-is, allowing them to keep the majority of their culture intact, would have given the Amarr a vast amount of power, while affording excellent opportunities to the Minmatar.

The Amarr threw away the opportunity to become the undisputedly most powerful entity in New Eden and at the same time gained themselves a dangerous enemy due to their own stubborn self-obsession.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kaid Hayden
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#84 - 2013-09-02 08:46:11 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Ayallah wrote:
And if you think that someone would willingly be a slave you are delusional.


There are far worse things to be. Walk down the average street in the Kingdom or Empire, go up to a slave, and ask if they'd prefer uncertainty, poverty and potentially prejudice for their beliefs, or the knowledge of a roof over their heads, food on the table and some degree of confidence in the future...

Well, it won't be unanimous either way, but human beings like certainties.


Stockholm syndrome, and being institutionalized.

If there is one thing that Amarrians are good at it is making it's chains seem the better option.

Present the question as you have and who would chose poverty? Present the chains as salvation, and people will not resist as you shackle them.

You forget, I know how it works, for I too was taught.


Rodj Blake wrote:

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?


Matar have walked willingly into exile and hardship for thousands of years to follow what god and the spirits has written on their skin.

Pick a better example.


And the story of the released slaves returning to the Empire is heartwarming, it truly is. Let them out at the nearest dock with nothing and assure yourself when they return to the only thing they have ever known, the cage.

As I said before, you will have to stop using examples straight out of the handbooks on indoctrination.


We used to have a saying:

"Sociocrat politics are about hitting those stronger than you, progressor politics are about hitting those weaker than you. Imperial politics are grabbing someone's arms and go, 'why are you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself'."
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#85 - 2013-09-02 15:49:05 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pilot Ayallah, I'd actually say if there's one thing that the Amarr are good at, it's blaming the victim.

Peaceful, unthreatening spacefaring society doesn't follow Imperial culture? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence armed invasion and enslavement of their homelands.

A tribe demonstrates an end of their patience with centuries of brutal oppression, cultural destruction and unrewarded labour? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence orbital bombardment and genocide.

The society as a whole throws off its shackles and declares independence? "Now look what you made me do!" Obstruct and oppose in every possible way their recognition as an independent sovereign nation.

The new nation turns out to be fractious, in large part due to the fact that its residents were subject to a program of forcible cultural conversion intentionally designed to divest them of the skills that would allow them to survive independent of the Empire? "This is all your fault!"

You know what the most blackly amusing thing about the Empire is? If they had approached the Minmatar in the same way they had the Khanid - in the manner of offering peaceful incorporation into the Empire as valued allies - there's every possibility that it could have worked. Consider that the Minmatar had, at the point the Empire discovered them, reached a higher level of technological and cultural progression than any of the other societies they had encountered, and in some areas their technological understanding surpassed that of the Amarr. Allowing them into the Empire more or less as-is, allowing them to keep the majority of their culture intact, would have given the Amarr a vast amount of power, while affording excellent opportunities to the Minmatar.

The Amarr threw away the opportunity to become the undisputedly most powerful entity in New Eden and at the same time gained themselves a dangerous enemy due to their own stubborn self-obsession.


So. Much. This.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2013-09-02 17:10:13 UTC
Ayallah wrote:


Rodj Blake wrote:

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?


Matar have walked willingly into exile and hardship for thousands of years to follow what god and the spirits has written on their skin.

Pick a better example.


If by "willingly" you mean "because they will be thrown to the lynch mob otherwise" then I'm sure you're right.

Oh, and I notice you forgot to respond to the part about mutilation. Smile

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2013-09-02 17:11:45 UTC
Kaid Hayden wrote:


We used to have a saying:

"Sociocrat politics are about hitting those stronger than you, progressor politics are about hitting those weaker than you. Imperial politics are grabbing someone's arms and go, 'why are you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself'."


By that reckoning, the Shakorite regime is the very definition of an imperial entity.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#88 - 2013-09-02 19:05:18 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Ayallah wrote:


The Amarrian economy is entirely built on the slave trade.

And if you think that someone would willingly be a slave you are delusional.



If you think that a small child would willingly go to bed on time, then you're probably delusional as well.

Does that mean that children should be allowed to decide when they go to bed?

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?


I find this statement confusing.

Are you at the same time implying that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo that do not want to go into exile or mutilate themselves follow the same analogy and are like children that do not go willingly to bed on time ?


You always were easily confused.

They were two separate points.

The first was that sometimes you have to make people do things they don't like for their own good.

The second was that any Minmatar who disagrees with the first point should perhaps get their own house in order before pointing their finger at others.


That was a wrong - or more polite - way to say that I find your statement confused in itself, actually.

But if you say so, thank you for the clarification in any case. I suppose that you also imply with the second point that the Minmatar denying it are lying hypocrites, while the Amarr have always been honest ?