These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

"How can we get more people into nullsec?"
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Perramas
DreddNaut
#41 - 2011-11-13 13:01:14 UTC
Your best bet to get players into null sec who pvp is to force out the high sec griefers and war dec corps. Those players already pvp and would be less likely to unsub unlike a pure industrialist or PvE players. Another thing this group of players have over the solo industrialist and PvE player is they are organized and work together to bring down war targets.

Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#42 - 2011-11-13 13:05:56 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.


it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

The thread ain't about human nature as much as it is CCP giving gate campers an I win button in nullsec. The OP asked what would get more folks into nullsec, and the reason most folks don't go is because the choke points are bubble camped. Nothing is wrong with massive fleet battles, but CCP is unbalanced in their approach to nullsec. With bubble camps it is logical, to not go into nullsec.


if you have a brain, an understanding of game mechanics, a basic cloak, and a MWD, you are essentially immune to bubbles. having a (PERSONAL) bookmark system helps too, saves time bouncing around for favorable angles.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#43 - 2011-11-13 13:07:19 UTC
Perramas wrote:
Your best bet to get players into null sec who pvp is to force out the high sec griefers and war dec corps. Those players already pvp and would be less likely to unsub unlike a pure industrialist or PvE players. Another thing this group of players have over the solo industrialist and PvE player is they are organized and work together to bring down war targets.


the sort of person who pvps in highsec exclusively is generally risk-adverse yet obsessed with "winning". trying to get them to leave the crib is about as fruitful as herding cats.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-11-13 13:14:16 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.


it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

The thread ain't about human nature as much as it is CCP giving gate campers an I win button in nullsec. The OP asked what would get more folks into nullsec, and the reason most folks don't go is because the choke points are bubble camped. Nothing is wrong with massive fleet battles, but CCP is unbalanced in their approach to nullsec. With bubble camps it is logical, to not go into nullsec.


if you have a brain, an understanding of game mechanics, a basic cloak, and a MWD, you are essentially immune to bubbles. having a (PERSONAL) bookmark system helps too, saves time bouncing around for favorable angles.

The average player doesn't have that great of understanding of game mechanics. Maybe you don't really know what will get more people into nullsec. I know from asking players and listening to their answers what will help them get into nullsec. One of the reasons most players don't go is because it is walled off from most solo and small gang type players. Seems extremely complicated to go through most gates just fine to all of a sudden needing a MWD and cloak, just to enter a system. Just be honest warp bubbles are not necessary, and prevent many players from attempting nullsec.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#45 - 2011-11-13 13:17:42 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

The average player doesn't have that great of understanding of game mechanics. Maybe you don't really know what will get more people into nullsec. I know from asking players and listening to their answers what will help them get into nullsec. One of the reasons most players don't go is because it is walled off from most solo and small gang type players. Seems extremely complicated to go through most gates just fine to all of a sudden needing a MWD and cloak, just to enter a system. Just be honest warp bubbles are not necessary, and prevent many players from attempting nullsec.


here's how it goes:

new player lands in bubble. wtf?

he dies.

he researches wtf just happened.

he learns.

he tries again. bubble? pfft, eat my dust you bored nitwits.

ANY player who doesn't learn and adapt won't survive in nullsec anyway.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-11-13 14:24:24 UTC
how to get more people to null..

answer : recruit more people to null .
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2011-11-13 14:36:08 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

The average player doesn't have that great of understanding of game mechanics...


Wow, you're making me feel really special! :blush:

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#48 - 2011-11-13 19:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Comrade Commizzar
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Stella Dust wrote:
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Oh look its another highsec pubbie who thinks they have nullsec all figured out.

But nevermind me, im just some poor mindless slave (who makes plenty of isk to pay for shiny ships that get blown up in pvp) to some evil nullsec overlord (and hey my alliance even reimburses ships I lose on alliance fleets, free pvp) who just RMTs all our hard earned isk (if our alliance CEO RMTs all of our isk how do we run our ship replacement program, keep our poses and JBs fueled, or even pay our sov bills?).

Have yet to be in a boring fleet fight (other than when we get blueballed), and insane lagfests died with the NC.

I live in nullsec because highsec bores me to tears, EVE PvE is mind numbingly boring, PvP is the only real fun thing to do in this game.




You're in TEST, do they actually PvP?


TEST's military arm is built entirely around the concept of drive-by trolling. We assemble massive fleets, so huge no one dares get in our way lest they evaporate, and then sit in POS bubbles until we get so frustrated that we bridge into hostile systems and **** up local something fierce (I have never seen local move faster than a TEST troll driveby, its truly impossible to read). Then we go back home and call it a moral victory.

BTW, this is seriously how the CFC took 6VDT and crushed IT. Massive, 23/7 trolling and station camping. We trolled them to death.

Also, the OPs entire post falls apart when you realize that said "evil overlords" are paying for every single ship you lose and dumping ISK into making fun things happen (if you joined the right side).

**********

I see... so YOU don't actually DO ANYTHING but tag along like a little puppy and "sit" or "speak" when you are TOLD to.
Yep, really "Leet" there Chief. I am in awe.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#49 - 2011-11-13 19:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Comrade Commizzar wrote:


I see... so YOU don't actually DO ANYTHING but tag along like a little puppy and "sit" or "speak" when you are TOLD to.
Yep, really "Leet" there Chief. I am in awe.


If you really believe what you just said, then you have never been to nullsec.

99% of what you do in nullsec is your initiative and your decision.

And if you couldn't detect how tongue-in-cheek that post was... then what can I say?
ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-11-13 21:04:23 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Lots of paranoid uninformed stuff about how it's warp bubbles that kill 0.0


Honestly man, if warp bubbles are such the terrible thing how is it that people who actually live in 0.0 full time don't see a problem with them ?

Is there a steep learning curve to get into 0.0 ? Hell yes. There's a shed load more to learn about null sec than you had to learn about mission running in empire. You cannot realistically expect to be an experienced null sec veteran within hours of jumping through your first null sec gate - You have a whole new game to learn. And that learning curve is a HUGE part about what makes living in null sec fun after years and years of playing this game.

Honestly, listening to people who obviously have very little clue about what makes null sec fun, lecture me on what's "wrong" with game mechanisms they don't understand is frankly irritating.

It's also hugely dissappointing because all you are doing here is telling other people who are new to Eve that nullsec is "too hard" and they should just give up like you did. And that's just bullsht man.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-11-13 21:36:24 UTC
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Lots of paranoid uninformed stuff about how it's warp bubbles that kill 0.0


Honestly man, if warp bubbles are such the terrible thing how is it that people who actually live in 0.0 full time don't see a problem with them ?

Is there a steep learning curve to get into 0.0 ? Hell yes. There's a shed load more to learn about null sec than you had to learn about mission running in empire. You cannot realistically expect to be an experienced null sec veteran within hours of jumping through your first null sec gate - You have a whole new game to learn. And that learning curve is a HUGE part about what makes living in null sec fun after years and years of playing this game.

Honestly, listening to people who obviously have very little clue about what makes null sec fun, lecture me on what's "wrong" with game mechanisms they don't understand is frankly irritating.

It's also hugely dissappointing because all you are doing here is telling other people who are new to Eve that nullsec is "too hard" and they should just give up like you did. And that's just bullsht man.


Well most of the nullsec dwellers are blue to each other atm, and frequently travel in blobs, so that is how a lot of them survive. Also since you have to be in nullsec, to use them then you probably wont see that much of a problem with them. Who has hours to learn how to use a gate in a game of internet spaceships? Warp bubbles keep new folks out so the population doesn't change that much. Nah. I hope new players realize that the risk for them, and what they want to do out there, outweighs their rewards.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#52 - 2011-11-13 21:44:58 UTC
Escaping warp bubbles is relatively simple in a small, fast, covops. But once I get to one of the many totally empty 0.0 systems, what do I do with it? Go roam the belts blasting rat battleships up?

How does an unaware high sec resident successfully move a battleship or HAC to 0.0 without benefit of loading it on a carrier and having it jumped?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
velinqangi
Nkulunkulu
#53 - 2011-11-13 22:26:06 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Escaping warp bubbles is relatively simple in a small, fast, covops. But once I get to one of the many totally empty 0.0 systems, what do I do with it? Go roam the belts blasting rat battleships up?

How does an unaware high sec resident successfully move a battleship or HAC to 0.0 without benefit of loading it on a carrier and having it jumped?


You use that same covops as a scout, job done Roll. Better method is to purchase large ships in 0.0 at npc stations, then scout them with your covops from there to your destination. The most dangerous part is the empire>null gate, avoid this by purchasing inside 0.0.

You gotta join a corp though guys, flying solo into 0.0 then screaming like a ***** because you have no idea what your doing! Join a corp, make friends, LEARN!

This requires patience, which I think is the main issue with people staying in high sec. everyone wants insta isk, and to be a pro within 24hrs, this aint WOW. You must fall on your face a good few times then get back up stronger and wiser, remind u of anything? yup real life. But oh wait most teenagers dont know the meaning of patience and perseverance in life. Here lies the problem. 0.0 = adults only? Twisted
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#54 - 2011-11-13 22:34:08 UTC
I must submit that on the one hand the bubble camping forms a "great wall of carebear" but on the other hand they can be avoided.


However when I managed to diss two bubbles in one system last night, I got funny feeling about the people manning them. These were bubbles intended mainly to catch people who don't know how to avoid bubbles - basically a noob harvesting operation.


I got the feeling that I really didn't want the "energy" of even dealing with the kind of people who are basically griefers. Even if I can avoid them, why dwell in their little world? I know enough about the streets to survive in them, and have enough training in small arms and the blade to deal with thugs on various levels - but I don't hang out on the streets because even being in the same area of such losers simply drags on my energy. When I looked at the noob traps in what constituted a gank pipeline, I got the same feeling that I got when I lived next door to a bunch of wife-beating loser dopers.

And it's proven that people will sooner choose to avoid losers and not have to put up with them in any way shape or form.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#55 - 2011-11-13 22:40:00 UTC
velinqangi wrote:
Better method is to purchase large ships in 0.0 at npc stations, then scout them with your covops from there to your destination. The most dangerous part is the empire>null gate, avoid this by purchasing inside 0.0.


I haven't been out there in a while....are the prices for ships, ammo, and fittings still incredibly reasonable?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#56 - 2011-11-13 22:44:06 UTC
velinqangi wrote:

You use that same covops as a scout, job done


And while we're on the subject....how does a single player, running a single instance of EvE do that exactly? What are the real world mechanisms that makes that possible?

To help guide you in your thinking, don't assume the player has a dual box setup, nor does the player have more than one account.

I've been there, I've done this.....now tell me how a single player on a single account scouts for themselves.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#57 - 2011-11-13 22:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

Well most of the nullsec dwellers are blue to each other atm, and frequently travel in blobs, so that is how a lot of them survive. Also since you have to be in nullsec, to use them then you probably wont see that much of a problem with them. Who has hours to learn how to use a gate in a game of internet spaceships? Warp bubbles keep new folks out so the population doesn't change that much. Nah. I hope new players realize that the risk for them, and what they want to do out there, outweighs their rewards.


first - not all of nullsec is a giant blue blob. the vast majority are neutral - aka hostile. yeah, there are a lot of blues, when you're flying in friendly space. That, and we shoot blues for fun anyway.

just for clarity, http://i.imgur.com/Fm6o0.jpg is what the map looks like to the CFC. OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS BLUE sure seems like a stupid claim when you realize every single system that is not green is hostile, and its residents will shoot you on sight.

Second, people do not move everywhere in blobs. Your average nullsec gank squad is something like a dramiel, a hurricane or two, and a falcon or two. 90% of things players do are solo or with one or two buddies. The only time people move in huge blobs are strategic ops - and strategic ops don't give a **** about some single neutral pilot in system on the way to their objective, unless you get in their way, or start following them and look like a scout.

Who has hours to learn how to use a gate in internet spaceships? The same people who had hours to learn how to play the game in the first place. You know, everyone playing.

Warp bubbles are only truly effective at getting people killed in large fleet engagements or gang fights.

And the risk most certainly does not outweigh the rewards. After all, there is a reason nullsec has a massive population of people having fun and getting spacerich.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#58 - 2011-11-13 22:46:14 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Escaping warp bubbles is relatively simple in a small, fast, covops. But once I get to one of the many totally empty 0.0 systems, what do I do with it? Go roam the belts blasting rat battleships up?

How does an unaware high sec resident successfully move a battleship or HAC to 0.0 without benefit of loading it on a carrier and having it jumped?


you don't move it there.

remember, everything in EVE can be converted into ISK and back with zero loss, or at a freaking profit if you are patient. I quite simply don't move ships anymore, I just fly a clone out to deployment systems and buy a new one.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#59 - 2011-11-13 22:48:17 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
velinqangi wrote:

You use that same covops as a scout, job done


And while we're on the subject....how does a single player, running a single instance of EvE do that exactly? What are the real world mechanisms that makes that possible?

To help guide you in your thinking, don't assume the player has a dual box setup, nor does the player have more than one account.

I've been there, I've done this.....now tell me how a single player on a single account scouts for themselves.


you check intelligence reports, communicate with allies, and take it slow and safe. or just ask a friend. but you specified single player, as though EVE was some sort of single player game where everything was intended to do solo.
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#60 - 2011-11-13 23:00:05 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.


it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

***************

This statement is patently false on it's face. If it were so Red China would have ruled the world long ago.
The point that the others are attempting to convey is the importance of balanced game mechanics and how they influence player behavior and participation.