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Mini-Dread Incursions
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#21 - 2013-08-31 05:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
I don't see these mini dreads boding well for incursions.... is there a way in hell for them to tank an Assault or HQ Alpha w/o remote reps? lol imagine the TPPH's & MJDing then having to fly 25k after a MJD jump after the 1 minute cooldown from siege.

If they could tank an VG alpha (which I doubt) w/o logi then they'll be OP there and not need any logi. So either we'll see the return of the old legion-like fleet doctorine ( but this time all Mauders & no logi ) or a complete abandonment of them.

In a word UNBALANCED
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-08-31 07:41:12 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I don't see these mini dreads boding well for incursions.... is there a way in hell for them to tank an Assault or HQ Alpha w/o remote reps? lol imagine the TPPH's & MJDing then having to fly 25k after a MJD jump after the 1 minute cooldown from siege.

If they could tank an VG alpha (which I doubt) w/o logi then they'll be OP there and not need any logi. So either we'll see the return of the old legion-like fleet doctorine ( but this time all Mauders & no logi ) or a complete abandonment of them.

In a word UNBALANCED


They can tank VGs, I don't see why you doubt that...

♞
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#23 - 2013-08-31 18:30:48 UTC
At the very least it will make destroying the tower in the TPPH site go rather fast.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#24 - 2013-08-31 23:16:46 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
At the very least it will make destroying the tower in the TPPH site go rather fast.


Why? There is no damage bonus just a range(projection) bonus and you can already position the ships in optimal rather easily.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#25 - 2013-08-31 23:40:08 UTC
Huh, thought there was. Prolly will be by the time they finish with it. Wonder if bastion mode will take into account OGBs? If so the resists in Bastion mode will be insane.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#26 - 2013-09-01 01:48:15 UTC
CCP Yitterbium wrote:

BASTION MODULE

•Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)

So with a DC II you got 90% across the board resists.... x up for HULL fleet Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#27 - 2013-09-01 07:11:02 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Yitterbium wrote:

BASTION MODULE

•Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)

So with a DC II you got 90% across the board resists.... x up for HULL fleet Blink


For a smaller corp, these things are Gona be fun to loose. How much of a pain in the arse do you think a squadron of those things are going to be to kill. Can't wait.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Agolon
Insight Limited
#28 - 2013-09-01 13:40:56 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Yitterbium wrote:

BASTION MODULE

•Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)

So with a DC II you got 90% across the board resists.... x up for HULL fleet Blink



It will be 73% hull resist not 90%.
It will give 30% resist to the remaining 40% resist after DC2 is applied. Its not Stacking penalized but it does have to follow the normal resist profile of each mod affecting Resist's
Novah Soul
#29 - 2013-09-01 17:05:51 UTC
Agolon wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Yitterbium wrote:

BASTION MODULE

•Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)

So with a DC II you got 90% across the board resists.... x up for HULL fleet Blink



It will be 73% hull resist not 90%.
It will give 30% resist to the remaining 40% resist after DC2 is applied. Its not Stacking penalized but it does have to follow the normal resist profile of each mod affecting Resist's

Correct :)

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-09-04 13:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
It's 72%.

((100-60)*30/100)+60.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-09-05 05:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
So now we have T2 resists instead of bastion bonus, but I feel that VGs are still tankable. That said, I can't see this sensible outside of all-marauder fleets anyways.

Maybe nice for a change of pace, but I cannot comment on competitiveness of such fleets. And of course I'm not talking about assaults and HQs here.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2013-09-05 05:48:22 UTC
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-09-05 06:35:15 UTC
Rowells wrote:
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?


3 logi? O.O

♞
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2013-09-05 06:36:10 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Rowells wrote:
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?


3 logi? O.O

havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#35 - 2013-09-05 06:57:18 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Rowells wrote:
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?


3 logi? O.O

havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember


depends on the fleet

Hobo fleet - 3 logi
Good fleet - 2 logi
Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones)
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2013-09-05 19:59:29 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Rowells wrote:
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?


3 logi? O.O

havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember


depends on the fleet

Hobo fleet - 3 logi
Good fleet - 2 logi
Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones)

still curious if its possible to remove logi and switch for a dps ship. would that be a worthwhile sacrifice?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-09-05 21:44:02 UTC
Jill Antaris wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

There's also the issue of getting enough people who can fly marauders.


A lot of armor pilots can fly them(I got multiple marauder 5 pilots and fly my Paladin nearly every day), because Kronos and Paladin actually are pretty good ships for Incs atm.

The changes make all of them more or less useless for Incs(to slow for HQ in contests, can't be RRed while in bastion mode, no web bonuses for VGs any more). I don't think throwing away 4-5 slots on every hull for active tanking will improve site times, compared to using them for painters, sensor boosters and webs and use 1-2 logis that can add another 5-10 tracking links to the gang.



Really? Without bastion mode, they should be able to fit a better buffer/resist tank (since they will get T2 resists) which should allow for more damage mods. Won't help the slower speed however.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#38 - 2013-09-06 01:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
Rowells wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:

havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember


depends on the fleet

Hobo fleet - 3 logi
Good fleet - 2 logi
Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones)

still curious if its possible to remove logi and switch for a dps ship. would that be a worthwhile sacrifice?


The problem is not the reps or the ships, its the pilots.

With 11 Marauders on the field you you could have at least 10 reps (and 2 cap transfers for stability) or 20 Reps (less stable) which is a lot more than you get with 2 Logi. However trying to manage shooting and being a logi is not that easy not to mention the 10 target lock max (you could split into groups of 5 leaving 6 targets to lock and shoot).

Back just after all of the incursion nerfs the FC I was flying with tried a remote repping legion fleet, and while technically you had enough reps on field it did not end well as everyone got confused and reps took much longer to switch ect.


[quote]Really? Without bastion mode, they should be able to fit a better buffer/resist tank (since they will get T2 resists) which should allow for more damage mods. Won't help the slower speed however.


Pretty much any fleet flying a full marauder setup would most likely already be running with 4 DPS Mods, not sure how much more you could get.

The Pally fit that a fleet I fly with has 1 resist mod in the lows (with slaves) and 1 Trimark. Not sure how much less tank you could get. I would assume that to get a bastion mode fit to work you would at least need 1 resist mod + a repper.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#39 - 2013-09-06 15:40:07 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Still trying to figure out if a Mini Dread can stay alive with only local reps for 80 seconds, under a full room of aggro.


They can in VGs, I ran the numbers in EFT.

Currently they will be given T2 resists, so when you place Deadspace Invuln and a DC2 on a sleipner (only for resist profile). I then threw on an X-Large deadspace shield booster, with 0 skill (So the shield boost amp skill bonus doesn't get applied). From what I remember it can burst 1700 omni DPS. Since Bastion mode doubles this, that puts it up to a 3400 DPS tank.

From there if you throw the booster onto a Marauder hull, the cap on a Vargur will last about 1:30, with a deadspace invuln and the booster running.

Considering that a standard tanked pirate battleship with 8 boosted logi reps has a tank of about 2400. Then you consider that most of the time logis will use no more then 5 reps on someone, their cap should last even longer.

For logis you could run Guardians/Basilisks with a 3-3 setup so as soon as they come out of Bastion mode they can service cap to everyone quickly.

This can be managed with everyone broadcasting in position when they enter Bastion mode, and when they exit they can broadcast for cap, if they need to be serviced, and broadcast for shield if they will be relying on the logis to tank for them (For example at the end of a site so they are not waiting for Bastion to end after the site is cleared).

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Aplier Shivra
#40 - 2013-09-06 17:34:49 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Still trying to figure out if a Mini Dread can stay alive with only local reps for 80 seconds, under a full room of aggro.


They can in VGs, I ran the numbers in EFT.

Currently they will be given T2 resists, so when you place Deadspace Invuln and a DC2 on a sleipner (only for resist profile). I then threw on an X-Large deadspace shield booster, with 0 skill (So the shield boost amp skill bonus doesn't get applied). From what I remember it can burst 1700 omni DPS. Since Bastion mode doubles this, that puts it up to a 3400 DPS tank.

From there if you throw the booster onto a Marauder hull, the cap on a Vargur will last about 1:30, with a deadspace invuln and the booster running.

Considering that a standard tanked pirate battleship with 8 boosted logi reps has a tank of about 2400. Then you consider that most of the time logis will use no more then 5 reps on someone, their cap should last even longer.

For logis you could run Guardians/Basilisks with a 3-3 setup so as soon as they come out of Bastion mode they can service cap to everyone quickly.

This can be managed with everyone broadcasting in position when they enter Bastion mode, and when they exit they can broadcast for cap, if they need to be serviced, and broadcast for shield if they will be relying on the logis to tank for them (For example at the end of a site so they are not waiting for Bastion to end after the site is cleared).


With room for 3 nosferatus in utility highs, they should be able to be cap stable long enough to run their reps for a whole VG site, especially when there are 11 marauders on field taking out the highest dps targets first, so that reps wont have to be run full-time.
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