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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#601 - 2013-09-01 10:36:43 UTC
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.
Dave Stark
#602 - 2013-09-01 10:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


and you could back then, too. what's your point?

also, if you get enough noob ships it is free.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#603 - 2013-09-01 10:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Zaxix wrote:
Roughly speaking, the point of profit for gankers comes around 2 billion. But that's not much profit. However, nothing will stop a thrill kill gank, because profit isn't the object. Most of the time, gankers are in it for the money and they want to make the most they can for their investment plus the lost sec status.

BTW: It only takes about 10 to 12 BS to pop a freighter. If you'd like to watch gankers in action, hang out in Niarja, Uedama, or the adjacent systems. If you fly regularly through those systems, I advise you do it ATK (at-the-keyboard) and not on autopilot, esp. if you go over the 1 billion isk cargo limit. If you go over 2 billion, you are taking a major risk. Freighter pilots looking to move that kind of expensive load should hire escorts, the serious, professional kind. Cause those pirates are very organized.

Link - Zaxix - Red Frog Freight

Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free

All the while completely ignoring the fact that a T1 BS was basically free, when you take into account the insurance payout, and an alt scooping up the drops from the Concorded ships.

The real cost in 2009, after insurance and loot from your own ships is probably not far off the same as it is now in 2013.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#604 - 2013-09-01 10:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.

And insurance didn't pay out more than the ship cost, a lot less than it cost and not mods. It was a large loss.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#605 - 2013-09-01 10:51:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.

And insurance didn't pay out more than the ship cost, a lot less than it cost and not mods. It was a large loss.


if it takes 29 players to kill a freighter then i think we need to nerf freighter EHP, a lot.
that's really not balanced.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#606 - 2013-09-01 10:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.

And insurance didn't pay out more than the ship cost, a lot less than it cost and not mods. It was a large loss.

Are you somehow missing the fact in 2009, when that post was made, a platinum insured ship that had been concorded resulted in a payout equivalent to 80% of the mineral value required to build the ship?

On top of that, any sensible suicide gank gang would have a neutral alt ready and waiting to scoop not only the cargo from the freighter, but also the module drops from the Concorded ships.

At a rough guestimate, pre insurance nerf, a suicide ganker could expect to see around 65-75% of their costs returned via insurance and their own module drops.

With regards to the cost of Catalysts, 2 million isk buys you a basic T1 fit cat with mediocre DPS. James 315 reimburses his agents Catalysts at the following rates.

  • Tech I -- 2 million
  • Named/Meta -- 4 million
  • Tech II -- 15 million

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#607 - 2013-09-01 10:53:54 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.


We are the people who invented industrialised ganking. Back then concord was much slower in responding and so we needed fewer ships. We also got our stockpiles of gankships when their price fell to the point where they could be insured and make a profit on their death. It was MUCH cheaper back then as these days even the cheapest gank will cost around 100 mil on a freighter.

If we go even further back we get to an age where concord could be tanked and you would find the likes of M0o burning entire systems. You have never been safer than today.
Dave Stark
#608 - 2013-09-01 10:58:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
You have never been safer than today.


"liar, i can't auto pilot with 50bn isk of officer mods in my cargo. ur full of it baltec!"
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#609 - 2013-09-01 11:00:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.


We are the people who invented industrialised ganking. Back then concord was much slower in responding and so we needed fewer ships. We also got our stockpiles of gankships when their price fell to the point where they could be insured and make a profit on their death. It was MUCH cheaper back then as these days even the cheapest gank will cost around 100 mil on a freighter.

If we go even further back we get to an age where concord could be tanked and you would find the likes of M0o burning entire systems. You have never been safer than today.

Really so all those posts I read from "back then" were all lying, even though they all agreed with each other... I don't think so. The red frog guy saying it required at least 12 battleships and was barely profitable at 2 billion in the hold dropping was lying.

Everyone was lying but you, someone who has a vested interest in ganking freighters continuing, are telling the truth ... I see

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#610 - 2013-09-01 11:07:12 UTC
pro tip: lots of people agreeing on something doesn't make them right.

eg, the earth being flat, or the sun revolving around the earth, etc.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#611 - 2013-09-01 11:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.


We are the people who invented industrialised ganking. Back then concord was much slower in responding and so we needed fewer ships. We also got our stockpiles of gankships when their price fell to the point where they could be insured and make a profit on their death. It was MUCH cheaper back then as these days even the cheapest gank will cost around 100 mil on a freighter.

If we go even further back we get to an age where concord could be tanked and you would find the likes of M0o burning entire systems. You have never been safer than today.

Really so all those posts I read from "back then" were all lying, even though they all agreed with each other... I don't think so. The red frog guy saying it required at least 12 battleships and was barely profitable at 2 billion in the hold dropping was lying.

Everyone was lying but you, someone who has a vested interest in ganking freighters continuing, are telling the truth ... I see


Freighters were added in 2005. Your info is not correct because it is not from back then. I dont thik it is even from the right forum.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#612 - 2013-09-01 11:15:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Now, you can do it for 2 milliion per pilot... pretty much free


Concord used to PAY US to gank things and we only needed 6 to 10 battleships to do it. It is now around 100 million and requires 20+ pilots.

According to the link I posted, it required at least 12, reading further, it used to require 20ish. Now you can do it with 29 x 2 million, that's 58 million isk. You make that back on salvage even if the loot fairy doesn't pay you billions.

You're full of it Baltec, not fooling anyone.

And insurance didn't pay out more than the ship cost, a lot less than it cost and not mods. It was a large loss.

Are you somehow missing the fact that in 2009, when that post was made, a platinum insured ship that had been concorded resulted in a payout equivalent to 80% of the mineral value required to build the ship?

On top of that, any sensible suicide gank gang would have a neutral alt ready and waiting to scoop not only the cargo from the freighter, but also the module drops from the Concorded ships.

At a rough guestimate, pre insurance nerf, a suicide ganker could expect to see around 65-75% of their costs returned via insurance and their own module drops.

With regards to the cost of Catalysts, 2 million isk buys you a basic T1 fit cat with mediocre DPS. James 315 reimburses his agents Catalysts at the following rates.

  • Tech I -- 2 million
  • Named/Meta -- 4 million
  • Tech II -- 15 million

Plat paid out around 20 million less than the ship x 12 = 240 million. A basic fit would cost around 10 million, assuming 50% dropped that's another 60 million. Plat insurance I think was around 40 million that's another 480 million. So that's 780 million lost from one gank.

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#613 - 2013-09-01 11:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#614 - 2013-09-01 11:26:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#615 - 2013-09-01 11:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.

Except you could have used 5 extra cats for the same dps for 10 mill... so 780 million from 2009, to 70 million today.. unbalanced

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#616 - 2013-09-01 11:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.

Except you could have used 5 extra cats for the same dps for 10 mill... so 780 million from 2009, to 70 million today.. unbalanced


5 catalysts isn't the equivalent of a talos.

also nothing stopped people using all catalysts back in 2009 stop pretending it did.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#617 - 2013-09-01 11:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.

Except you could have used 5 extra cats for the same dps for 10 mill... so 780 million from 2009, to 70 million today.. unbalanced

Without a link to look at the Talos fit, I would say that the Talos was probably used to keep the freighter from aligning via bumping, a Catalyst is shite for bumping, especially for bumping a freighter.

Even the miner bumping guys use cruisers over destroyers for bumping exhumers and barges, for Orcas they bring out the BCs or BSs.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#618 - 2013-09-01 11:52:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.

Except you could have used 5 extra cats for the same dps for 10 mill... so 780 million from 2009, to 70 million today.. unbalanced


Because destroyers were not around in 2009.

Also we would haveused six or so free battleships back in 2005.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#619 - 2013-09-01 11:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Bat Country has a kill on a Charon on Battleclinic made with 28 T1 fit cats, and 1 talos. That's about 90 million. If they insured and collected mods it'd be something like 20 million.

Except they didn't and wouldn't get an insurance payout, not even the base payout for an uninsured ship. There is zero payout for any ship destroyed by Concord.


Also that talos is at least 80 mil just for the hull.

Except you could have used 5 extra cats for the same dps for 10 mill... so 780 million from 2009, to 70 million today.. unbalanced


5 catalysts isn't the equivalent of a talos.

also nothing stopped people using all catalysts back in 2009 stop pretending it did.

5 cats > dps than 1 Talos

Edit: Before you argue with me 1 t1 fitted cat = 300 dps. 1 T2 fitted Talos is 1000dps. I'll let you do the rest of the math.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#620 - 2013-09-01 11:59:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Same mechanic that stopped most freighters being ganked with the only reasonable force (battleships). Profitablity.


so, no game mechanic has ever stopped players dropping 2m isk ships on a freighter?


For every low slot added they would have to remove 12% base cargo ( I think thats what a t2 cargo extender gives you) otherwise people could ship capitals into high sec.

I dont want my freighter nerfed in an attempt to fix stupid people.

No need, simple to not allow capitals to be put into a hold or not allow them to be assembled in high, or not allow freighters with capital ships in hold to enter high sec or more fun to have customs fine or nuke freighters with banned caps inside... your protestation is just an excuse to not nerf your cash cow.


Apparently 2m isk an hour is a cash cow that needs to be nerfed.

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