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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#421 - 2013-08-31 18:31:34 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They were asking for a specific corporation because the usual suspects killboards and figures didn't match up to your claim. Tippia may have been the first to openly dispute it, but he certainly wasn't the first to call you out on it.


Perhaps they should have clarified the context of their question.


How unclear is "name the corp that ganks a freighter every 20 minutes"?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#422 - 2013-08-31 18:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Domanique Altares wrote:
Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification.
…and at the end of the day, and no matter where the number crunching ends up, that's really the whole point:

If you offer up bajillions worth of rewards and someone comes along to collect it, you aren't really in a position to complain that they are raking in bajillions worth of rewards.

Freighters aren't really any easier or harder to kill now than they've been in the past — people have just decided to stuff more valuables into them, thereby making themselves bigger targets. The adjustment required to fix this problem is to not stuff quite as much valuables into them…
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#423 - 2013-08-31 18:32:58 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.


Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification.

edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter.


This, so much this +1 to you sir.

As a freighter pilot this is something you should take into consideration every time you undock.

Trust me fly with this in mind you massively lower the risk you are at.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#424 - 2013-08-31 18:33:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Who is Mr. Man? and why is he the person I should take things up with?


Mr. Man. Mr. Straw Man. There's a picture of him here, somewhere. Byerley would rather you argue with Mr. Man.
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#425 - 2013-08-31 18:33:12 UTC
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#426 - 2013-08-31 18:36:02 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They were asking for a specific corporation because the usual suspects killboards and figures didn't match up to your claim. Tippia may have been the first to openly dispute it, but he certainly wasn't the first to call you out on it.


Perhaps they should have clarified the context of their question.


If this wasn't clear enough for you, then....

S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#427 - 2013-08-31 18:36:04 UTC
Qolde wrote:
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.


Unfortunately for freighter pilots, all of the stuff they get filled with is priced according to the player market.

Fortunately for freighter pilots, there is absolutely no requirement that their ship be full before they undock.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#428 - 2013-08-31 18:36:07 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Except we don't actually make that much isk from ganking freighters. You seem to be ignoring this fact.


baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person.

You'll have to fogive me if that gets a little confusing.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#429 - 2013-08-31 18:37:16 UTC
Qolde wrote:
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.
It's not defenceless though. It can be defended for a comparatively small cost.

Oh god.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#430 - 2013-08-31 18:37:30 UTC
Qolde wrote:
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.


Its meant for bulk hauling low value items. Stuffing it full high value items is where people go wrong.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#431 - 2013-08-31 18:37:43 UTC
Qolde wrote:
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.


A freighter full of trit is around 500M.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#432 - 2013-08-31 18:37:48 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Who is Mr. Man? and why is he the person I should take things up with?


Mr. Man. Mr. Straw Man. There's a picture of him here, somewhere. Byerley would rather you argue with Mr. Man.
Oh I see, :homer: Arguing with an inanimate object would probably be more productive to be honest.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#433 - 2013-08-31 18:38:32 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.


Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification.

edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter.


If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.


There's a joke:

A man goes to a doctor, and tells him, "Doctor, when I move my arm this way, it hurts."

The doctor replies, "Then don't move your arm that way."

In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#434 - 2013-08-31 18:40:02 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.


Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification.

edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter.


If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.


One thing I've always supported is that suicide ganking should not be profitable at a base level. That means that a few cheap ships should not be able to suicide gank an unfit ship that is carrying no loot & still profit from it (this was the premise of the barge buff, although Fozzie has admitted that they took it too far). Even when using T1 Catalysts ganking an empty freighter is not profitable. The freighter pilot chooses to make himself a profitable gank.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#435 - 2013-08-31 18:41:53 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Except we don't actually make that much isk from ganking freighters. You seem to be ignoring this fact.


baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person.

You'll have to fogive me if that gets a little confusing.


Suicide ganking isn't a taxable activity. I see where you're going wrong here, you don't understand game mechanics.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#436 - 2013-08-31 18:42:15 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person.
No. He claimed that one guy with an undisclosed number of alts made 60bn in a day, and that after the loot from a gank has been split 15 ways, it'll be less per hour than what each of those characters made.
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#437 - 2013-08-31 18:42:29 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.


So don't fill it, my freighter has been filled above 70% of its maximum cargo maybe 3 or 4 times ever, but it is still invaluable daily.

Just because it has the cargo space does not make it a requirement or a good idea to fill it to capacity.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#438 - 2013-08-31 18:44:47 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it.


But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? and CCP is looking to rework badly designed ships? I even cited reducing the cargo hold as a valid approach.

In any case, I'm off for now. Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr for high sec catalyst ganking and how everyone who disagrees is ignorant or a butt hurt Freighter pilot.
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#439 - 2013-08-31 18:48:40 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Qolde wrote:
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.


A freighter full of trit is around 500M.

as was stated earlier in the thread who would be inefficient enough to haul a freighter full of trit due to mineral compression? its very evident that the ship balance has been far behind the Meta since abc's and then again when tiericide began. a full freighter is a dead freighter. not saying they should be ungankable with a full stack of estamels, but somethings gotta give

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#440 - 2013-08-31 18:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Matari Akiga wrote:
So don't fill it, my freighter has been filled above 70% of its maximum cargo maybe 3 or 4 times ever, but it is still invaluable daily.

Just because it has the cargo space does not make it a requirement or a good idea to fill it to capacity.

^^^ For example, the Falcons and Zealots I was complaining about earlier required ~300k m³ to transport, and the inventory window claimed they were worth about 4bn ISK in total. So we decided to split it in two runs, because the current route to Jita goes straight through an interdicted system, and thus still required Freighter-sized cargo space to get the junk to market.

S Byerley wrote:
But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed?
You can use it just fine, so it's not particularly bad design. People stuffing them full of valuables is a bad decision though, but that's no different from blinging your cruiser-class mission ship up with billions worth of mods. Just because you put Estamels on your Tengu doesn't mean it is poorly designed for having so many midslots.

Quote:
Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr
The only one who has claimed this is you.