EVE General Discussion

And if you actually knew any of these people
you'd realize that these guys actually are normal.

They don't mistake a game for reality and they don't wish you or your family death
because they've lost stupid space pixels.

Unlike carebears who only care about themselves and their bloated egos,
most people who like to blow things up and interact with others
understand that it's a game !

Look up what a "sociopath" is, before you even start talking about it.



And finally i get it. It's almost september and the idiots are back from their holidays ...

Someone rose the multiboxing argument, which is a feeble try to diminish industrial pilots, the ones using multiboxing the most. (Yes, I do. And I do it to the extreme. I have 9 accounts I log everyday and at once.)

- From the third part point of view, how different it is to have one person with multiple chars and multiple people with one char ? For the industrialist point of view is one person mining or manufacturing operation that equals several human players with one account, but it is only hurtful to the ego. To the game itself it is the same. For the pvp players it has to distinct reasons: For the good pvp player it is just easier to counter as one person with multiple chars cant be as good as multiple people with one char. For the ganker scum preying on the new or less combative player, it is harder not because it is multiple chars, but people used to control multiple chars are able to be better than someone who stay in ganking the weaker in combat, probably because it is someone who cant make decent combats.

- From the New Eden as a whole point of view, multiboxers are neglectible as a class, because it only tweak CCP statistics over number of players or concurrent players, but besides that, multiboxers have much less impact than the same number of organized chars from multiple people.

What hurts people is that multiboxers:

- Earn more ISK than non-multiboxers
- Can pay multiple subscriptions and/or earn ISK enough to support multiple accounts
- Have more time, money and enjoyment in playing EVE

Multiboxing criticism is just born from hurt prides over legitimate reasoning.

From the comments on my previous posts:

- EVE market is not player driven indeed. You are talking about prices and conditions, that is not "drive" the market. It is simply one part of market aspect. A player driven market would be were EVERYTHING is player made, which is implied by EVE ads but not true. There are TONS of things that players make, but if they didnt, you would still be able to buy them in the market, receive from missions or buy from NPCs. And still, if CCP CAN control, it is not player driven, even if they dont.

- When I said about what we want is not safer conditions for industrialists, you forgot to read the whole sentence, in which I say, I want harsher conditions for everybody. It is easy to be a ganker, because gankers can do whatever they want, run some errands and go back to exactly the same point they were before such acts. You will never be so punished by your acts that you will never be able to return to the state you were before what you did. On the other hand, you can inflict with such acts so much loss to a player that this player will never be able to return to the state he/she was before suffering said aggression. Even if it is possible, it is very harder or more expensive to get some ships, some cargo or some skills preserved or replaced than to rise your security status and standings. That is what I see in the OP post and what I agree: Unlawful acts in hisec should be possible to dig a hole so deep into criminality that at some point there is no turning back, or a painful and difficult turn back.

- When I say "industrialist only" I still talking about CCP ads and promises. It is clearly stated that you can be only an industrialist in eve ads and websites. It is clearly stated in EVE enthusiastic texts that you can be a industrialist/trader and make market wars to the same extent real wars can be merciless. But you cant. And for the reason I stated in the first item of this list: Market is not player driven. CCP does not control what players do, but you have NPC corps selling, giving and rewarding, which is more than enough to invalidate the idea that the market is player driven.

FWI must be shooting up recently in CCP headquarters...

I make of it that anything you say is likely irrelevant to anything meaningful, and so I shouldn't read any further.

Thanks for the warning, and a big +1 for not wasting my valuable forum time!

To the OP:

How about we take up arms in a war game?

Beyond that, how about we mine aligned instead of aligning to whine?

If it was only a game, tears would not matter. They matter precisely because it's not a just a game.

True, it is a game with an enclosed economy. Yet steadily the items that are NPC provided become fewer and fewer. Increasingly players drive the economy, and already drive the vast majority of the items. Classifying it as a player driven economy is perfectly valid.

Also, do not confuse the source with actual market activity. Players do not create minerals, yet they do control the acquisition rate of those minerals and the prices they are bought and sold for. Ships purchased with loyalty points are the same thing. While players may not create the ships or bpc's they are built from, they do control how many are acquired and introduced to the economy. Basically they are a more sophisticated raw material. If players did not bother to go through the necessary steps to obtain them, they would not exist on the market.

This situation mirrors reality in many ways. The strongest weapon of a criminal is usually anonymity or the ability to relocate beyond the reach of retaliation.

If someone breaks into your home the vast majority of the time he will get away with it unless caught in the act. The police can record what was taken and how, but have no where near the manpower to try to track down every stereo, laptop, or car that is taken daily in your respective country. Often it is up to you to hit the pawn shops in the area to try and find your belongings, and even if you do it often does not lead to the arrest of the person responsible.

The best you can usually hope for is that insurance will partially reimburse you, just as it does in game. Unless that criminal makes a mistake you'll likely never see him or your property again.

Fortunately criminals do make the occasional mistake, just as they do in game. But in a game environment where incarceration isn't really a viable option (for obvious reasons) that limits the consequences to a temporary death by Concord or another player... giving them ample opportunity to learn from that mistake and try again, or develop ways that ensure the consequences are well worth accepting.

I'm not going to say that the game mechanics are perfect in this regard. While you do have options to protect yourself (through preparation or evasion) I still think we have a ways to go to allow a person to make the hunting of criminals (in game terms) a viable profession. The basics are there, but need further development.

Here's the ultimate best defense against ganking.


Go gank for a couple weeks. Learn the mechanics of operating in highsec as an outlaw.

Once you've learned the mechanics, go back to mining, and realise how easy it is to dodge a gank.



Here's a freebie for you. Ganking with an outlaw character requires the use of a scout. The scout's job is to cuddle up next to your barge, and provide a warp-in. When you see someone getting too close, leave. This however, requires you be ATK and paying attention.

Good example and there are many examples of how meta gaming threatens the integrity of the game world. At the very least, it destroys any suspension of disbelief which is an important part of any good story.

But even worse, it makes it very difficult or even impossible for a player to know what is really going on. Creating uncertainty and confusion is a great tactic, but it should be done from within the game world...now that takes skill. Any idiot can multibox. I wish I could create 8 copies of myself in RL and make a lot more money! Of course, this notion is very silly and it makes Eve just as silly.

I generally don't interact with people in the game world because I don't know who they really are. I don't even know who they are in Eve. This avatar could be the same person that has 8 different schizophrenic alter egos which renders them all empty and without any true character. Ultimately, it makes the game much more shallow and pointless.